Court awarded Costs to the other side & CCJ

[atticus]

Q1. possibly

Q2. possibly.

Q3. It helps if you try to understand..

Q4. You owe the money to the company that brought the claim. If names have been changed, check on companies house, and find the company that had the particular name on the date the Claim Form was issued. That is the company you owe, no matter what name it now has.

[SweetWilliam]

Q1. possibly

Q2. possibly.

Q3. It helps if you try to understand..

Q4. You owe the money to the company that brought the claim. If names have been changed, check on companies house, and find the company that had the particular name on the date the Claim Form was issued. That is the company you owe, no matter what name it now has.

Thank you.

Q4. a) The company that brought the claim on the 8 Oct 2019 is in liquidation. That company has not changed its name, it is liquidation and being managed by the liquidators.

b) It is my understanding on the basis of a Purchase Agreement (between the liquidators and the solvent company) the 'Value of the Claim' £2710.30 was sold and purchased for a nominal fee 10% with an agreement to pay some monies back to the liquidated company should the claim be successful. I understand that rational.

What I do not understand is the Court Awarded Costs and in my circumstances how they are treated? By virtue of the fact that the debt came about due to a judge awarding the debt to me (Court Awarded Costs):

Q5. Can they be sold and purchased to a third party (in the same way as the Value of the Claim contingent-debt), are they managed like any other debt? - it would seem not

Q6. Do they follow which ever company is deemed to be the Claimant in the case - which I think seems to be the case?

Q7. If the answer to Q6 is Yes, given that the Court has dismissed the claim against me, there should be no further liability to pay the debt

Further info. The liquidators have assurred me that the Court Awarded Costs must be paid to the solvent company. I have asked them to provide evidence that that debt has been sold or transferred but they have declined to do so - which I think is very unhelpful.

When I pointed out to the liquidators that the directors of the liquidated company appeared in Court without declaring that the company had gone into liquidation and not declaring that they were no longer directors - the liquidators have said that there was no wrong-doing on the basis that they were in Court to pursue a debt to the liquidated company on behalf of the creditors (of which I am one).

Q8. Has an offence been committed by attending court and not stating your role (in this case ex-director, rather than current director), when the Appeal judge speaks directly to you?

[atticus]

Then you pay the owner of the claim.

I await your next new information.

[SweetWilliam]

Then you pay the owner of the claim.

I await your next new information.

The debt following the claim that follows the Claimant.

Notwithstanding the Trial judge in April 2023 said the Claimant not having gained the right to pursue me for the claim and having therefore dismissed the claim.

Q9. Does this also mean that as the Claimant does not have the right to pursue the claim there is Court Awarded Cost to pay, if not why not?

Q10. If the Court only granted that the owner of the claim be changed to the solvent company in Jan 2023 (the formal legal requirement to enable that change), that the debt was due to the insolvent company upto that point? - which is what I said to the liquidators once I found out that the company had gone into liquidation, but which they denied.

[SweetWilliam]

In terms of who is a creditor.

Directors approach liquidators wtv to CVL. Liquidators state their role to assist the directors with the process. Liquidators write to "All Known Creditors" to inform them about Virtual Meeting, Financial Info, Reasons for Failure & Statements of Affairs. Liquidators approved.

Gvmt website says directors must give liquidators info about the company as requested; hand over assests, records & papaerwork, be interviewed by liquidators.

On liquidation the liquidators have all the info and are the managers and agents of the liquidated company.

Q11. Who is responsible for identifying who the creditors are at the different stages: a) during the period between directors approaching the liquidators and entering into discussions b) between 'letter to creditors' and CVL c) Post CVL

Q12. What responsibility do the liquidators have post CVL to a) identify any new creditors b) contact newly identified creditors given that this is a small company who have stated in their 'Reasons for Failure' that the non-payment of £2710.30 represented a serious loss and had a big impact on their ability to trade.

Q13. Given the statements in the Reasons for failure is it on the balance of probabilities reasonable that the financial record of my account could be overlooked?

Q14. Shortly after the liquidation the liquidators sold the contingent-debt of £2710.30 to a third party, the solvent company R. Short Holdings Ltd and in the Purchase Agreement Schedule 1 it provides a break down of the sum owed - this information I believe is only held in the digital account (and for which I have a print out of) held in my name where it also indicates the payment of a deposit of £750 paid on the 21/01/2019. How reasonable is it to expect the liquidators having (let's say) only just found out about this deposit payment, to contact me as a (newly) Known Creditor - indeed are they required to by law?

[SweetWilliam]

And another point:
Q15. Who now is the Claimant if the claim has been dismissed (as of 6 April 2023)? - I think that it may be the solvent company, in which case the debt is owed to the company R.Short Holdings Ltd (and still not the director).

The liquidator has said that they will accept the payment and hand it over to the ex-directors, not to either the insolvent company or the solvent company - or at least the Insolvency Service has told me this, which is bizzare.

I am making an application to the Court and I need to know who the Claimant is.

[atticus]

This is all unstructured and confused. Maybe the court process will provide the answers you seek.

[SweetWilliam]

This is all unstructured and confused. Maybe the court process will provide the answers you seek.

If you don't understand it it is probably because the facts of the case are inconsistent and illogical and by breaking down the points to individual questions I was looking for legal guidance prior to appearing in Court because I like to get my facts straight.

If there are any questions above that you are able to help with, I would very much appreciate it.

From where I am right now, it seems that no one has acted properly, a breach here and a breach there, what is a breach among friends?

[SweetWilliam]

In my Witness Statement, in the outline section, I have summarised my complaint in respect of the Court Awarded Costs:

1. Directors can be held liable for company debts if found guilty of misconduct or of obtaining the money via fraudulent means; I believe that the evidence supports this, for:

1. Failing to provide the necessary information to allow me to comply with the Order of the 8 July 2022;
2. Seeking to deny creditors the benefit of the Court Awarded Costs
3. Seeking to gain personally from receipt of the Court Awarded Costs
4. Misleading the Court by seeking to enforce the payment into a personal account of the Court Awarded Costs
5. False declaration of a Statement of Truth in the N316 Application, by deception.
6. An abuse of the Court’s resources by pursuing action to enforce the payment of the Court Awarded Costs;
7. An abuse of me for reasons unbeknown to me, in their acts that have caused be considerable and significant harm

[SweetWilliam]

This is all unstructured and confused. Maybe the court process will provide the answers you seek.

Is there anyone on this forum who has a more helpful less pompus view that could help someone who is not a solicitor on a complex case who is asking for help by those whom presumable do have knowledge?

[SweetWilliam]

Okay, legalbeagles,

I am off to my N39 Order to attend Court for Questioning for the second time tomorrow.

The first time, I was informed that as the claim against me had the previous week, been dismissed, there was no debt to pay and I could go home - and I did.

I have a cheque written out by my buidling society for the judgement debt of £180.00 made payable to who I think is the judgement-creditor, so that it can be paid should I be required to.

However, I have made an application for the debt to be dismissed, to Order for Contempt of Court, Order for misconduct, Order for aggravated damages and indemnity costs and Order to add the ex-directors as parties to the counterclaim - all by myself without any legal assistance, because none is available.