Court awarded Costs to the other side & CCJ

[SweetWilliam]

Costs went against me. Other party failed to provide bona fide payment details. Judgement debt not paid. Other party successfully applied to have the CCJ. Court awarded debts are not handled in the same way as successful claims so the ordinary means to set aside teh CCJ do not apply. Any ideas? I have an N39 scheduled for 4 july 2023.

[SweetWilliam]

Hi,
Does anyone have any experience of this type of debt/CCJ - apparently the process follows a different route to that of other types of debt?

On the 8 July 2022 a judge made an order that I should pay the other party's costs £180.00 ( a poor judgement in my view, but a debt that needed paying nevertheless). The other party is a company and the directors' emailed me payement details - a bank account on the day the payment was due (22 July 2022), but the bank account was an account belonging to the director personally specifically not the other party (the company). On the 26 July 2022 the directors approached an insolvency practitioner wtv to entering into CVL and did so on the 6 Sept 2022.

I didn't pay it but questioned the validity of the bank account and was repeatedly informed that the money should be paid to the director personally - I believe that this is fraud.

In February 2023 a CCJ appeared on my record but I was unware until I received an N39 Order to attend Court for questioning on the 11 April 2023. I attended but the Court clerk told me to go home as the civil case had been dismissed and therefore I didn't owe any money. The otehr side also attended but I believe that they may have signed an EX550 falsely declaring that they were the Judgement creditor - I have asked the Court for a copy, if it exists.

As the matter is still unresolved, the court, indeed the His Honour the Circuit Judge has once again issued an N39 Order to attend Court on the 4 July 2023. On the order they have stated that the judgement creditor is the insolvent company, but sent the letter to the ex-director of the company to serve me the notice. The ex-director is just that the ex-director and has no authority to act for the insolvent company, that is what the IP does. This time I know that there is a requirement to complete an affidavit EX550 so it will be interesting to know who will be completing it.

This is a dogs dinner.

I am frustrated that a CCJ is on my credit file when I have not been given a bona fide account to make the payment, that someone (the Court?) has authorised the CCJ without informing me or checking with me on the fact. The directors who have persistently lied and perjured themselves throughout this case appear to have been given the authority by the Court to confirm that the judgement debt has not been paid and is still owing regardless of the facts and on that basis a CCJ has been applied to my account.

Are there any legal minds on this forum - please do not tell me to get legal advice because if I could afford to do so, believe me I would not be in this mess in the first instance and I have tried every which way to get help but there is none available to me. Cheers

[ULA]

SweetWilliam as one of the admin team on LegalBeagles and in order for our community to be able to assist you I need to find out how many of your multiple threads started on 7 June relate to the same legal problem. If they all relate to the one issue then in order to assist those providing advice to you please can you contain everything on one thread. We understand that often people have several questions but they do not need a new thread each time.

If all of your threads relate to one issue then I will cut and paste each question across to this thread and we can continue to advise you from this thread and delete your other threads.

Thanks

[SweetWilliam]

Please see my response on separate thread. Your understanding would be appreciated.

[MIKE770]

How many threads?

[SweetWilliam]

How many threads?

Answer: I don't know, I haven't counted them.

reckon ppl on here will know that better than me! I'll go and see if I can find out.

It seems it is 5

[ULA]

SweetWilliam I am in a difficult reception area until this evening and cannot check out your other threads currently.

I meant no offence with my post I was merely trying to ensure that all the information related to your issue is in one place on a single thread in order for our community to provide you with advice.

I will try to sort this out for you this evening or tomorrow morning when I am back online properly.

[ULA]

I have seen you post and understand that for you it is easier to ask each question separately. Can I therefore suggest that if possible you start any new threads in just one area of the forum and not across multiple areas. I am just trying to balance the best way for you to use the forum but also to ensure the community providing advice can easily see all the necessary information related to the issue and the advice being given by other volunteers.

[SweetWilliam]

My case has been on-going since 2018.

I have genuine direct questions, such as:

Is it the responsibility of the judge at an in-person hearing when ordering that costs be paid to the other party , in this case a limited company who were represented by two agents of the company they being employees and directors (£180) to assertain the payment details ie the company's bank account details, so that information is on the Order when the clerks type up the order and is therefore an order that can be satisfied?

Without payment details, how is the judgement debtor, me to know where the payment is to be paid? Without that information the order can not reasonably be fulfilled.

As I have had different opinions on this matter, my hope is that this could be debted on this forum and a consensus reached.

[SweetWilliam]

Well, I have had a very rocky start to this forum and as such I have found my answer elsewhere...Civil Procedure Rules

Turning the tables on you chaps.

There is no reqmt for a judge to add the payment bank details on the order - of course this does not necessarily comply with CPR 1 the Overriding Objective re case management.

It has been suggested that I simply pay the debt into the account given regardless but nevertheless fraudulent, aiding and abetting a criminal act the upside being that I would not have had a CCJ or 11 months of hell, but I'm not built that way.

So, I am left with applying to the Court to consider the criminality of the ex-directors as an urgent matter, prior to the N39 hearing, which I would really like to avoid not least because it is based on a fraudulent application, but I have neither the time nor the desire to gather all the information together.


Now that the admins are happy, perhaps someone could apply themselves to the matter at hand?

[ULA]

Tag MIKE770 can you assist please?

[MIKE770]

To be honest if a Judgment has been made follow the outcome., then review the case and then investigate, but most times unless under an Appeal the Judges decision is accepted? appeal can be costly and would need careful handling by specialist. & there are time limits:-

[MIKE770]

May I point out we are volunteers on here and try to assist as much as possible, but many have day jobs and give their time freely to try and assist. and many try to help from personal experiences.

[atticus]

If you have been ordered by the court to pay money to a limited company, and that company is now in liquidation, you should liaise with the liquidator about arrangements to pay. If you pay into the director's private account the liquidator may enforce against you the court order to pay the company.

[SweetWilliam]

If you have been ordered by the court to pay money to a limited company, and that company is now in liquidation, you should liaise with the liquidator about arrangements to pay. If you pay into the director's private account the liquidator may enforce against you the court order to pay the company.

Thank you.

The debt was due prior to the company going into liquidation, but as they refused to provide me with a Company bank account, I didn't make the payment. Two days later they entered into negotiations regarding liquidation, but continued to insist that I pay into the personal account. I contacted the Court but the Court has ignored (failed to reply to me) about this situation, which is very frustrating because the Court then accepted a N316 application from the individual to pursue me and indeed applied a CCJ on my account.

I offered to pay the individual on provision of their accountants guarantee, the liquidators refused to accept payment, I offered to pay the Court and the Insolvency Service has informed me that the liquidators would now accept payment but would then hand it over to the individual!

I understand that the enforcement section of the court deal with the listing of applications of enforcement matters and despite my application some months ago, they have not dealt with it and sent the individual another N39 to serve upon me.....

For clarification, because it is required - The liqudators sold the book debt for the installation of a gas boiler £2710.30 to a solvent company belonging to one of the directors of the insolvent company. The company is R.Short Holdings Ltd that do very little and have no assets, but the idea being that the individual could continue to pursue me despite the company going into liquidation and of course my counterclaim should I have won having no funds to pay out.

The solvent compant went to court to change the claimant name to the solvent company (which I think they suceeded in but at the Trial hearing the judge said that they had not the authority to pursue me (and I don't understand why not, it seems perhaps that something else should have happened but did not) and on that basis the judge dismissed the case against me.

It is therefore possible that the Claimant IS the solvent company. The question then araises, has the judgement creditor status transferred to the solvent company strictly by this virtue?

My reasonsing is that whilst the Claimant has changed by virtue of purchasing the debt for the boiler installation, the purchse agreement (between liquidators and solvent compnay) makes no mention of any sale/purchase the Court Awarded Costs (£180.00). I believe the judgement creditor to be the insolvent company as I have not received any evidence that the Court Awarded Costs have been sold on.

Of course the matter of fraudulently attempting to personally gain just prior to the company going into liquidation is a separate matter and one (or not?):

Question 1: Is it fraud to have money paid into your back pocket when you are a director?

Question 2: Is a judge going to consider the above as a matter for the Courts given that it is only £180.00?

Question 3: How do Courts view the likes of me a litigant-in-person attempting to pursue justice in legal matters that I don't really understand?

Question 4: Do I owe the money to the insolvent company or the solvent company?