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When is midnight?

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  • When is midnight?

    Is there a legal 'definition' of midnight that is used in law.

    So, today is Wednesday, and it's 8am.

    I get a bill and accept that I have to 'Pay by midnight tomorrow'

    So...my strict 'legal' reading of that would be 'Pay by the 'end of Wednesday', because 'midnight tomorrow' is the first second of Thursday ie immediatley after 23:59:59 today as the clock goes to 00:00:00.

    I'm looking for an actual case or source that backs this up, or otherwise.
    Last edited by LLLLLLLLLLLL; 6th April 2022, 07:12:AM.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    I am not aware either that there is a legal definition or a need for one.

    Can you explain the context that gives rise to your question?
    Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now in academia. I do not advise by private message.

    Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by atticus View Post
      Can you explain the context that gives rise to your question?
      Today is Wednesday. Ticket says 'Pay by midnight tomorrow'...the context is do I pay by 23:59:59 tonight, or by 23:59:59 tomorrow night??

      If I'm late paying I get a fine.

      That's why I believe there will be a legal defintion or ruling that sets midnight either as the start of a day, or the end of a day [it can't be both].

      Comment


      • #4
        Tomorrow is the day after today, so if on Wednesday you are told to pay tomorrow, the day by which payment is to be made will be Thursday, and not Friday, Tuesday, or any other day of the week.

        Are you unable to pay earlier in the day? Leaving it to the very last nanosecond is courting disaster. What if you have a power cut or your internet goes down?

        But if you want to run a test case, then that is your right.
        Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now in academia. I do not advise by private message.

        Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by atticus View Post
          Tomorrow is the day after today, so if on Wednesday you are told to pay tomorrow, the day by which payment is to be made will be Wednesday, and not Friday, Tuesday, or any other day of the week.

          Are you unable to pay earlier in the day? Leaving it to the very last nanosecond is courting disaster. What if you have a power cut or your internet goes down?

          But if you want to run a test case, then that is your right.
          You are completely missing the point.

          I am perfectly capable of paying it whenever....but that matters not.

          I thought my question was simple enough? I will rewrite it for you....If today is Wednesday, when is 'midnight tomorrow'?

          Comment


          • #6
            Before you replied I edited post no 4 to correct the Wednesday to Thursday. Sorry for that.

            What exactly is your point?
            Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now in academia. I do not advise by private message.

            Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

            Comment


            • #7
              This confusion happens in other situations, hence the army used to not time anything for midnight (00.00) but always used a date with date plus time 23.59 hours or date plus time 00.01 hours.
              In other words "midnight" could be either end of a particular day.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by atticus View Post
                Before you replied I edited post no 4 to correct the Wednesday to Thursday. Sorry for that.

                What exactly is your point?
                No worries.

                I'm just trying to find a source to show how 'midnight tomorrow' would be defined in law. Is it 'the start of tomorrow' or 'the end of tomorrow'?

                I appreciate 23:59 and 00:01 and all that....but this is a specific nuance that I'm trying to resolve...

                thnaks again everyione!


                Comment


                • #9
                  the end of the day.
                  Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now in academia. I do not advise by private message.

                  Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    And here is a definition, found by searching online for "midnight definition" : https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/midnight

                    "midnight means the last moment of a given day occurring before commencement of the next day. For example, a date of ‘Midnight on December 31, 2016’ would mean the last moment occurring after 11:59:59pm on December 31, 2016 before the date becomes January 1, 2017."
                    Last edited by atticus; 6th April 2022, 07:58:AM. Reason: add text
                    Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now in academia. I do not advise by private message.

                    Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's a perfect example of why I'm asking the question.....you have an opinion, and so do I. They are different. One of us will be right and one of us will be wrong.
                      Now imagine me suing you because you didn't pay according to my definition of 'midnight tomorrow'...where's your defense? Well your honour, my opinion is that 'midnight tomorrow ' means totally different to what he thinks.

                      I don't actually care who is right or wrong...I'm just looking for clarity from a legal point of view.

                      So whilst this is the internet, i'm not looking to argue or convince anyone I'm right...I'm just trying to get a definitive source that isn't just 'some bloke on an internet forum disagreed with me and said it was xxxxx'.

                      And yes i appreciate i can 'go pay a solicitor'.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Let's put it this way: on your interpretation payment by midnight on 6 April requires payment on 5 April. That makes a mockery of the reference to 6 April. I cannot see a court upholding your argument.

                        I f you are proposing to take any action for late payment, I recommend waiting (on my example) for 6 April to end.
                        Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now in academia. I do not advise by private message.

                        Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just to be picky.... that is an American definition

                          Here is the UK supreme Court decision:
                          Matthew and others (Appellants) v Sedman and others (Respondent) [2021] UKSC 19.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Why not just pay by midnight tonight to be on the safe side?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think this is being taken a bit too seriously.
                              OP has already suggested it is an academic question for him, and I found it fun to look for an answer.
                              It is a bit like medieval philosophers asking how many angels can dance on the point of a pin,

                              Comment

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