Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

[Crazy council]

Finally, a judge that looks at evidence and the value of statements given by local authorities

http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Ju...ail/story.html

Concluding he should live with one set of grandparents, he said: “I have never, in over 10 years of hearing care cases, taken the view, as I did in this case, that the local authority’s witnesses were visibly biased in their attempts to support the local authority’s case,” he said.“It is very unfortunate and I hope I shall never see that again.”
He criticised the evidence given by social workers Neil Swaby, Rachel Olley and Peter Nelson, adding their concerns “appeared to be grossly overstated in order to try and achieve their ends”.
He said Mr Swaby had been “very begrudging indeed in his evidence” and “was intent on saying only things which supported the local authority’s case”.
He added Ms Olley’s evidence was “totally discredited in my view”.
He said: “Again I had the very strong impression that the local authority witnesses were intent on playing up any factors which were unfavourable to the grandparents and playing down any factors which might be favourable.”
Judge Jack also said Mr Nelson had raised issued which were “not serious” and that his evidence “smacks to me of the same bias”.

So, nothing new there then

[leclerc]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

They do that a lot. They contrive to give you facts which they make up all the time.

[leclerc]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

I want to add the case law which you can read yourself: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCC/Fam/2014/B77.html

[MissFM]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

What a sensible judge!

I accept that that is not going to be easy but not everything in life is easy. I rely upon the local authority to provide as much support as is needed to assist in ensuring that that placement works.

[GerryMatt]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

My family are having a very difficult time at the moment with the SS. My fifteen year old sister has told teachers she was self harming to get out of swimming lessons (because she is overweight and feels embarrassed). She was then sent to a psychologist who interviewed her alone then he made a referral to SS. Based on what she told him, without any evidence to substantiate self harm or anything else she told him they have now decided that these are 'facts' and that my mother is guilty of emotional neglect. It is unbelievable how these people are so arrogant as to break their own guidelines that decisions must be 'evidence based'.

[MissFM]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

Hi GerryMatt ,

Is this tied in with your thread? http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...113#post496113

In your position I would ask SS for an urgent Core Assessment http://www.safeguardingchildren.co.u...rocedures.html on behalf of your sister.

It's more than a little extreme, IMVHO, in this day and age, to blame the parents of a self-harming teenager - the nature of existence for teenagers now is horribly stressful and self harm would appear to have taken over from anorexia/bulimia as the default release. SS have a remit to help rather than impede and if they are involved anyway then it's more productive (again, IMO and IME) to enlist their help and their huge powers on your side rather than have a confrontation.

[leclerc]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

My family are having a very difficult time at the moment with the SS. My fifteen year old sister has told teachers she was self harming to get out of swimming lessons (because she is overweight and feels embarrassed). She was then sent to a psychologist who interviewed her alone then he made a referral to SS.
The referral would be automatic in terms of the fact that she has stated that she has self harmed because there is clearly an issue that she appears on the surface to have that needs investigating.

Based on what she told him, without any evidence to substantiate self harm or anything else she told him they have now decided that these are 'facts' and that my mother is guilty of emotional neglect
They are not a court of law and further to this they need to establish the facts and emotional neglect is very difficult to define. The self harming comes from somewhere and clearly she needs some form of emotional support if there is evidence that she did self harm.

It is unbelievable how these people are so arrogant as to break their own guidelines that decisions must be 'evidence based'.

Gary, it's not unbelievable for some professionals to think that they are judge and jury before the fact. It's quite normal . As you have said, evidence based in the important thing.
Is your sister still within the family home?

[GerryMatt]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

Hi GerryMatt ,

Is this tied in with your thread? http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...113#post496113

In your position I would ask SS for an urgent Core Assessment http://www.safeguardingchildren.co.u...rocedures.html on behalf of your sister.

It's more than a little extreme, IMVHO, in this day and age, to blame the parents of a self-harming teenager - the nature of existence for teenagers now is horribly stressful and self harm would appear to have taken over from anorexia/bulimia as the default release. SS have a remit to help rather than impede and if they are involved anyway then it's more productive (again, IMO and IME) to enlist their help and their huge powers on your side rather than have a confrontation.

Thanks for your reply. The confrontation arose because the psychologist expressed concers over self harm, substance abuse and an overdose attempt at a Child In Need meeting some ten weeks after meeting my sister. Instead of informing my parents immediately that he believed she was at risk he sprung it on them during the meeting in front of social workers. They asked if she could have a medical exam and a drug test because there has been no evidence of any of this behaviour and they believed it may have been attention seeking or that she was asked leading questions. Because of this SS decided they were guilty of emotional neglect and have now placed her on the Child Protection Register: still with no medical evidence.

[GerryMatt]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

Gary, it's not unbelievable for some professionals to think that they are judge and jury before the fact. It's quite normal . As you have said, evidence based in the important thing.
Is your sister still within the family home?

Yes she still is at home. I stayed there for 3 weeks and observed her behaviour. There was no evidence of any emotional distress. She did get permanently excluded from school during that time, however, due to repeated bad behaviour in lessons. One of her teachers described her as a 'convincing liar'. My opinion is that she is trying to avoid taking responsibility for her bad behaviour and is simply telling professionals what they want to hear, which is giving them the ammunition to persecute my parents. The way she presents herself to these people is totally different to her demeanor at home. She has refused to attend a medical exam or have a drug test either, which should have set the alarm bells ringing straight away.

[leclerc]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

Yes she still is at home. I stayed there for 3 weeks and observed her behaviour. There was no evidence of any emotional distress. She did get permanently excluded from school during that time, however, due to repeated bad behaviour in lessons. One of her teachers described her as a 'convincing liar'. My opinion is that she is trying to avoid taking responsibility for her bad behaviour and is simply telling professionals what they want to hear, which is giving them the ammunition to persecute my parents. The way she presents herself to these people is totally different to her demeanor at home. She has refused to attend a medical exam or have a drug test either, which should have set the alarm bells ringing straight away.

Is she attention seeking? And if that is the case, why do you think this is the case?

This is the NSPCC leaflet on emotional abuse but this mainly looks at cases in early years rather than latter years but some might apply in this case.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/globalassets...lect-abuse.pdf

The fact that the girl is at home is a positive step. You say she is 15 years old, roughly how long will it be before she is 16 years of age(do not give date of birth on here btw)?

There must be an underlying issue. Has she always been like that to her teachers?

[MissFM]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

Is she attention seeking? And if that is the case, why do you think this is the case?

This is the NSPCC leaflet on emotional abuse but this mainly looks at cases in early years rather than latter years but some might apply in this case.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/globalassets...lect-abuse.pdf

The fact that the girl is at home is a positive step. You say she is 15 years old, roughly how long will it be before she is 16 years of age(do not give date of birth on here btw)?

There must be an underlying issue. Has she always been like that to her teachers?

One reason I suggested a Core Assessment which has, by law, to be conducted within a strict time scale.

In the circumstances it would include involving CAMHS, which is always overstretched and which is often much harder to access for 16 to 18 year olds, especially if they are not in full time education.

See here: http://www.youngminds.org.uk/for_par...what_are_cahms

There is a black hole in mental health services for 16 to 18 year olds in many areas. If your sister is self-harming and abusing substances even if it looks like "just" attention seeking behaviour to others there is clearly something going on for which she needs ongoing support, as do your family in helping her to deal with it.

If you leave it and it worsens then the support might be that much more difficult (nigh impossible) to find.

This from bitter experience.

I would add that if SS perceives a problem then they have a duty to address the situation robustly and positively - use their services to your advantage.

[GerryMatt]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

Is she attention seeking? And if that is the case, why do you think this is the case?

This is the NSPCC leaflet on emotional abuse but this mainly looks at cases in early years rather than latter years but some might apply in this case.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/globalassets...lect-abuse.pdf

The fact that the girl is at home is a positive step. You say she is 15 years old, roughly how long will it be before she is 16 years of age(do not give date of birth on here btw)?

There must be an underlying issue. Has she always been like that to her teachers?

I would say that her main issues are that she is overweight, has a low activity level and spends too much time on the internet. She has also suffered a degree of social exclusion as we are a fairly poor family. I think she gets plenty of love and attention in the home environment, especially as she is the youngest, but when at school she is rejected by other children. I think a part of her desperately wants to be loved and accepted by her peers, and that she has resorted to desperate measures to be noticed.
Her bad behaviour, presumably to try to gain popularity and notoriety, resulted in her being placed under the microscope by certain staff. She was patronised by the headteacher who crossed the boundary that would normally be in place between herself and pupils. I think this made my sister feel 'special'. She basically realized that by telling tales about things like self harm she would get more sympathy and adulation from these people, which probably alienated her even more from the peers that she was initially trying so hard to gain acceptance with.
She now has a whole bunch of Social workers, psychologists and nurses making her the centre of attention, desperate to keep the show going. She demands that her parents are excluded from meetings while she says things that make them look bad to keep all of these adult 'friends' amused. She talks about her social worker as if she is her best friend.
The reason I feel so angry is that my mother is one of the kindest and selfless people I have ever known. Probably too kind if anything. If she was my kid I may be inclined to allow her to spend a little time in foster care to teach her a lesson.

[GerryMatt]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

One reason I suggested a Core Assessment which has, by law, to be conducted within a strict time scale.

In the circumstances it would include involving CAMHS, which is always overstretched and which is often much harder to access for 16 to 18 year olds, especially if they are not in full time education.

See here: http://www.youngminds.org.uk/for_par...what_are_cahms

There is a black hole in mental health services for 16 to 18 year olds in many areas. If your sister is self-harming and abusing substances even if it looks like "just" attention seeking behaviour to others there is clearly something going on for which she needs ongoing support, as do your family in helping her to deal with it.

If you leave it and it worsens then the support might be that much more difficult (nigh impossible) to find.

This from bitter experience.

I would add that if SS perceives a problem then they have a duty to address the situation robustly and positively - use their services to your advantage.

My sister did visit CAMHS and it was them who made the referral to SS. The problem was that the psychologist basically sat on all of the information for ten weeks until the first Child In Need meeting. The information he provided indicated he believed she was self harming, taking illegal substances and had attempted suicide. This was entirely based on what she had told him: there was no objective medical evidence to substantiate it.
My parents did not accept any of this because she had been behaving perfectly normally and there were no visible marks on her body. My mother later complained about the psychologist not having notified her immediately of 'risks' he had identified, which may have put her in danger.
Because of my parents not believing the psychologist the SS decided my sister was at risk of emotional neglect. In the meantime my mother arranged an appointment with a private psychologist to get a second opinion, which my sister refused to attend. She also refused a medical exam and drug test. They have now alleged that my mother has prevented her from accessing services.
A Core Group Assessment has taken place already since the Initial Child Protection Conference. What we are working on, however, is to have a Review Conference asap. Stage 1 and 2 complaints have been made against SS so far and we are awaiting the outcome.

[MissFM]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

Whew! I can see why you're so cross, GM.

Has she seen a psychiatrist at all or just the psychologist?

[Crazy council]

Re: Judge notices social workers are not reliable whitnesses

Hi

I posted the link because we have some history with that SS. I have 3 daughters ( two now full adults ), and we had an incident years ago that lead to the SS stiking there nose in and making a mess. quite a serious one

In your circumstances, protect your mum and other family members from the SS trying to paint a bad image of you. your sisters 15, and girls between 13 and 17 go through emotional bumps, like a sort of emotional puberty,, some sail through, some have bumps,, but they nearly all sail through it eventually.

My advise, is get your mum to write a clear and concise letter to the SS dept, outlining her concerns in relation to there actions, lAsk them exactly what there plan is to recover the situation, in the short term and long term.