Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

[redbulluk]

My girlfriend resigned from her sales role. Unfortunately she sent the letter from her (now returned) work laptop so we don't have a copy, however she believes she stated that she was resigning on that date. She probably didn't word it correctly, but certainly didn't state that she wasn't prepared to work her notice period of 2 months.


They wrote to confirm and stated that her employment was terminated with immediate effect. At the time, she didn't think anything of it, and expected to be paid in lieu of notice (as standard for most sales roles).

They did not pay her.


She wrote to them, to query this but they have replied stating that she did not give any notice of her intention to resign and that her employment was terminated on the original date.


Any advice welcome
Thanks

[redbulluk]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

Any thoughts on this? Have I posted in the correct forum?

[R0b]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

Its a case of her word against theirs really, what is the amount she is expected to have been paid?

It might not be worth the cost of going to court if the sum owed is considerably lower than what it would be to bring a claim but ultimately it is her choice. Next time make sure to keep a copy of the letter and if notice is given, then it could be evidenced by sending it by email or letter and having someone sign it as received or someone to witness it.

But if she did not work her notice as her contract stipulates how can she claim back the monies she is owed? If she resigned, that's an indication to say she is not willing to work anymore

Maybe I have missed something here?

[charitynjw]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

Hi redbulluk & welcome to LB.

Maybe a SAR would work.
http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...ur-information
The employer may not realise what you are after, & so might supply the offending letter.
It'll cost a tenner, & may take a while to obtain (usually up to 40 days).

[redbulluk]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

I'm sure we could obtain a copy of her original letter. When they replied they stated that it was attached, but they forgot to attach it.


Though, I think the point is, does it matter what wording she used in her letter? Does 'I resign' automatically imply that you are not going to work your notice period?


It doesn't help that she was on a lot of pain relief meds at the time, so probably wasn't thinking completely straight. Not sure if it's relevant, but she had been signed off sick for a few weeks (following major surgery related to breast cancer a few years ago). They were pressuring her to return to work early, hence one of the reasons for her resignation.

[redbulluk]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

Sorry, realised I didn't reply to you directly.
The amount is for 2 months basic salary, so runs into 000's
My understanding was that the legal definition of a resignation, is that it is notice to leave employment (as I say, the heavy pain relief meds didn't help when drafting a perfect letter). Can an employer simply decide that an employment contract is terminated with immediate effect?

Also, I should mention that her phone and laptop were collected 9 days after her resignation, so she would have been unable to work.

Any more advice?

[R0b]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

What does her contract say, does it have a clause in there that says the employer can terminate with PILON?

When you resign you are taking the conscious decision to leave the employment and not work. If she did that without giving the proper notice then she will be in breach of the employment contract and it is the employer who could technically (subject to the amount in question) bring a claim against her for breach of contract unless there was a PILON clause allowing her to terminate but its usually one way and in favour of the employer, not mutual.

If the resignation was not given or accepted and they terminated then they will be in breach either in relation to the PILON or breach of contract for not giving the relevant notice period to terminate.

Does that help?

[charitynjw]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

Without sight of the resignation letter it is difficult to comment.

& we don't know for sure the official (documented) reason for the dismissal.

'Terminated with immediate effect'........ but for what official reason ?

& just to dot i's & cross t's, how long had your girlfriend worked there?

[redbulluk]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

Thanks to you both for being a huge help.

Essentially, her resignation letter was due to the pressure from the employer to return to work early from sick (is there a case for constructive dismissal?), and it was brief - "I hereby resign from the employment of xxxxx Ltd"

Their reply was along the lines of "We hereby accept your resignation and your employment is terminated with immediate effect. We'll be in contact to collect phone & laptop"

In hindsight the resignation letter should have been clearer that she gave notice, but it certainly didn't state that she wasn't prepared to work

[charitynjw]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

& just to dot i's & cross t's, how long had your girlfriend worked there?

& this bit?

[redbulluk]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

Sorry - around 12 months

[charitynjw]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

How big is the firm?

Did they refer your gf to Occupational Health, or offer a phased return, or lighter duties?

[redbulluk]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

International manufacturer, over 150 employees. Not sure if it's relevant, but she way overperformed during her time there, receiving various mentions in company newsletters on her performance.

They didn't offer any referral, phased return or lighter duties, just lots of phone calls about when she was returning to work.

[charitynjw]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

Ok......just some preliminary thoughts.

I've recently seen that, in cases involving sickness (capability) issues, the EAT has ruled that a firm does not have to follow a disciplinary procedure before terminating the employment. (I haven't had time to look at the actual judgment, just a commentary.)
(Holmes v QinetiQ Limited)
This would complement an earlier ruling on SOSR (some other substantial reason) issues.
(Phoenix House Ltd v Stockman and another........again, I've just seen a commentary.

But the gist seems to be that the firm does have to go through it's sickness procedure; if not the dismissal could be unfair.

The normal qualifying period of continuous employment needed to claim unfair dismissal is 2 years; however, there are exceptions. (Discrimination, automatically unfair dismissal etc).

A claim via ET must be filed within 3 months less one day of the cause of action.

It seems odd to me that the firm has jumped at the chance of terminating gf's employment, esp given the plaudits you've mentioned.

[charitynjw]

Re: Resigned or gave notice? Employment terminated?

The above post concerns unfair dismissal.

However, withholding pay without good reason is wrongful dismissal.
This can be pursued through county court.