Question re where next after appeal

[jay69477]

I put a grievance in regarding disability discrimination with my employer and have went through the full process and have today received my appeal descision. The process has taken approx 5 months and more or less my complaint has been dismissed.

The reason for the grievance was that my employer didn't make necessary arrangements to accomodate a reasonable request I had made in writing for significant day for me and the company.

Both my grievance and appeal and all that went on inbetween has still failed to answer the question why an auxilliary aid was not provided for me and have actually went as far as saying that upon reflection they didn't think I actually needed it!!! At this point they have had no outside qualified information regarding my disability other than the obvious and what I have provided them.

From Grievance submission to receiving the appeal took approx 5 months. During the 5 months three attempts have been made to discipline me

Any advice would be much appreciated

[Kati]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

to LB

I'll move your post to the employment section and tag [MENTION=26290]mariefab[/MENTION] for you (she'll be able to help ) xx

[mariefab]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Was the 'significant day' more than 3 months ago?

What was their reasoning for thinking that you didn't need the adjustment/aid?
Was it that, in hindsight, you coped without it?
Or, that they decided, before the event, that you were not comparatively disadvantaged?

[jay69477]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Yes it was more than 3 months ago, however I submitted a letter on the day it happened and a formal grievance approx a week later, the grievance appeal has only been issued a few days ago

The significant day was a transfer too new premises as my existing workplace closed down. My colleagues transferred with us, but my line manager and assistant manager changed and there was a significant number of new personell. On the day there was an induction meeting, presentations, familiarisation tour, locker allocations, etc that I was excluded from. I raised this as a grievance and the above information was communicated to me a few days later on a 1to1 basis but I lost the oppurtunity to be with my colleagues and have an idea of any questions they may have raised I felt excluded.

The reason that they have said that I did not need it was that "as I didnt require a interpreter on my 1st day of employment at the old branch they didnt think i required it on the first day at the new branch", however I have only got that answer after a 5 month grievance process, I think to be honest it was an oversight on there part, the email i sent requesting the adjustment was forwarded on by the HR person and I do not know what happened to my request after that.

My argument to that point is that I had already had an interview with an interpreter, I had discussed how the basics of communicating with my line manager and a more senior manager and was familiar with the site. A lot changed when we moved, I was frustrated as I felt the move wasn't sufficiently explained to me in advance, there were team meetings I was not a party too at this time also, which is what triggered me to put my request in writing.

Hope that helps, there is regrettably a lot more to this saga and it has grown arms and legs which is why I think the issue has been covered up in the grievance process, but I am unsure where that leaves me.

[jay69477]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Another wee quick question if i may, I have done lots or research on reasonable adjustments but can find very little on who's responsibility it is to suggest them.

I know I can suggest them and an employer can consider them, but surely an employer would have an obligation/responsibility to take positive steps to investigate what adjustments may be required when recruiting an employee with a disability. For example the company utilises an Occupational Health Provider to asses what may be required, or actively engaging with access to work

My employer is keen to say that they have granted all my requests for reasonable adjustments that I have made and have committed to engaging with access to work and reviewing what they say (whilst having two potential gross misconduct processes still to complete they maintain are seperate)

As this was my first time in gaining employment I maintain that whilst I had some knowledge of what was needed, I was not qualified to properly identify what adjustments would have been required.

[charitynjw]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

[MENTION=26290]mariefab[/MENTION]

[Openlaw15]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Another wee quick question if i may, I have done lots or research on reasonable adjustments but can find very little on who's responsibility it is to suggest them.

I know I can suggest them and an employer can consider them, but surely an employer would have an obligation/responsibility to take positive steps to investigate what adjustments may be required when recruiting an employee with a disability. For example the company utilises an Occupational Health Provider to asses what may be required, or actively engaging with access to work

My employer is keen to say that they have granted all my requests for reasonable adjustments that I have made and have committed to engaging with access to work and reviewing what they say (whilst having two potential gross misconduct processes still to complete they maintain are seperate)

As this was my first time in gaining employment I maintain that whilst I had some knowledge of what was needed, I was not qualified to properly identify what adjustments would have been required.

Hello, Jay

Happy Easter!

It is very difficult to comment on the law if you do not tell us your facts. 1) what is your job type, and how long have you been employed by this company. 2) what is your disability type to raise grounds in claim for discrimination. Why do you feel or believe you have been discriminated against in terms of your disability? Which reasonable adjustments did you request and which ones were denied or implemented. Why did you need an interpreter? If there are any further reasonable adjustments that could be made for you, in your view what are they?

[jay69477]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

I am appreciateve of your feedback and the difficulty in commenting appropritately to my questions as I have not given all the facts over. I am quite happy to discuss my comments in depth, however as I am still employed I am hesitant to do that in an open forum, if you could provide me with an email address I can send those details onto you direct.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

I am appreciateve of your feedback and the difficulty in commenting appropritately to my questions as I have not given all the facts over. I am quite happy to discuss my comments in depth, however as I am still employed I am hesitant to do that in an open forum, if you could provide me with an email address I can send those details onto you direct.

that fine, Jay. I understand. You could email any of us actually.

[jay69477]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Thanks Openlaw, I have sent you an email, my advice, is get comfy, make a coffee or tea if you prefer grab a biccy and have a few asprins available first its a doozy of a tale

[jay69477]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Good Morning All,

Just a quick query to openlaw15, did you received my email the other night I really hope you can put me on the right path.

I appreciate you guys are all so busy and have lives to lead but I could do with some advice on my points, therefore if any other admin thinks they could offer me some advice I can email them with details if they let me know.

Once again thank you for your time

[Openlaw15]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Good Morning All,

Just a quick query to openlaw15, did you received my email the other night I really hope you can put me on the right path.

I appreciate you guys are all so busy and have lives to lead but I could do with some advice on my points, therefore if any other admin thinks they could offer me some advice I can email them with details if they let me know.

Once again thank you for your time

Sorry to not responding sooner Jay. I am not sure if there is a disability discrimination claim for a tribunal either. Victimisation is a possible claim, which you were correctly advised. You would have problems proving the discrimination part. Discrimination must actually have something to do with your job, ie practice, criteria, performance (PCP), in that your treatment as disabled person is worse off than an non disabled comparator.. At best it may be possible (not necessarily probable) to argue a case for indirect disability discrimination. Why do you think your employer wanted to get rid of you and why do you think it relates to your disability? You made a mistake, yet you don't give details you just say 'made an error' alluding your professional task. You allude that did something wrong, well twice actually (which I won't discuss here in public). As a professional was this error (in your job task) serious or not, if not why not. As to the other thing, if it were viewed serious enough although not relating to your job task, the two things collectively could amount to misconduct or gross misconduct.

However, this should have been made known to using express wording in a formal letter relating to key terms 'investigation' and potentially 'suspension.' You should not have had to rely on this from third party interviewee statements.

In short your employer has a defence for dismissing you. It seems your employer may argue by doing these things you either breached their trust in your professional work or in other matters and they therefore no longer trust you to work there. They will argue the disability discrimination or victimisation claims were you to make them are just revenge for being dismissed, ie a disgruntled employee.

[jay69477]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Good Morning Openlaw15

Thank you for your response.

Would the PCP not be attending team meetings?

The first error was I over tightened a bolt which subsequently snapped. I imagine this is common occurrance and whilst they are correct to investigate and take action over, I do not believe I will be dismissed over this as I feel they have made that many procedural errors handling the investigation that the potential for it to be unfair is present.

The second error I believe I am "in the hands of the gods" and it could go either way dismissal of the allegation or dismissal of me, although I again I think there may be some procedural mishandlings on there part.

With regards to the question I raised about reasonable adjustments, where does the onus lie to research what adjustments maybe required, is it mine or my employers?

Why I feel it is/was discrimination was the timeline of events really, I handed in a letter regarding my situation and whilst I was not as clear as I could have been the letter was clearly demonstrating that I was struggling due to a lack of reasonable adjustments. This was not reacted to although an 1to1 induction was carried out to cover themselves from a statutory perspective. As soon as they were covered from a statutory perspective a weak and not properly substanciated or investigated disciplinary process was begun.

This was cancelled as part of the grievance process. 2 days after receiving my outcome letter the 2nd process begun ( they will argue co-incidence as they had no control over the date the product was returned, however they had already begun the investigation and spoke to me although not making me aware it was an invesitagtion or potential disciplinary issue )

1 day before my appeal outcome was issued the 3rd process was begun.

Also 5 months after a grievance being submitted from a disabled employee regarding the lack of adjustments my day to day situation remains relatively unchanged.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Good Morning Openlaw15

Thank you for your response.

Would the PCP not be attending team meetings?

The first error was I over tightened a bolt which subsequently snapped. I imagine this is common occurrance and whilst they are correct to investigate and take action over, I do not believe I will be dismissed over this as I feel they have made that many procedural errors handling the investigation that the potential for it to be unfair is present.

The second error I believe I am "in the hands of the gods" and it could go either way dismissal of the allegation or dismissal of me, although I again I think there may be some procedural mishandlings on there part.

With regards to the question I raised about reasonable adjustments, where does the onus lie to research what adjustments maybe required, is it mine or my employers?

Why I feel it is/was discrimination was the timeline of events really, I handed in a letter regarding my situation and whilst I was not as clear as I could have been the letter was clearly demonstrating that I was struggling due to a lack of reasonable adjustments. This was not reacted to although an 1to1 induction was carried out to cover themselves from a statutory perspective. As soon as they were covered from a statutory perspective a weak and not properly substanciated or investigated disciplinary process was begun.

This was cancelled as part of the grievance process. 2 days after receiving my outcome letter the 2nd process begun ( they will argue co-incidence as they had no control over the date the product was returned, however they had already begun the investigation and spoke to me although not making me aware it was an invesitagtion or potential disciplinary issue )

1 day before my appeal outcome was issued the 3rd process was begun.

Also 5 months after a grievance being submitted from a disabled employee regarding the lack of adjustments my day to day situation remains relatively unchanged.

Hello Jay

Your disability does not affect you performing on your job when compared to others. Your disability is more to do with communication. The PCP is only relevant where your disability affects your job, ie any PCP or work related task, to put it another way. Attending meetings and such is not your main job so it's not likely to be a PCP, as you were also advised. You were not hired to attend meetings as your main profession is a skilled trade type job. It requires 2 years alternatively, to make a claim for unfair dismissal. It seems you have not been there long enough to make a claim for unfair dismissal. It may be discrimination but it is not disability discrimination in my view, it seems your discrimination relates to you being victimised than for it to affect a disabled person doing his or her job. Your employer will still use the questionable legal activity as their defence. It was only trivial - ie there was no loss to them but it's still a defence for not trusting you, or putting it another way they have a good excuse.

[jay69477]

Re: Question re where next after appeal

Hello Jay

Your disability does not affect you performing on your job when compared to others. Your disability is more to do with communication. The PCP is only relevant where your disability affects your job, ie any PCP or work related task, to put it another way. Attending meetings and such is not your main job so it's not likely to be a PCP, as you were also advised. You were not hired to attend meetings as your main profession is a skilled trade type job. It requires 2 years alternatively, to make a claim for unfair dismissal. It seems you have not been there long enough to make a claim for unfair dismissal. It may be discrimination but it is not disability discrimination in my view, it seems your discrimination relates to you being victimised than for it to affect a disabled person doing his or her job. Your employer will still use the questionable legal activity as their defence. It was only trivial - ie there was no loss to them but it's still a defence for not trusting you, or putting it another way they have a good excuse.

Once again openlaw15 thank you for your advice, it helping me to see things a bit more clearer. As I said I realise I am exposed in relation to the last incident due to my own actions and am prepared to accept those consequences. I just needed reassurance that the manner in which they deal with it was not related to other ongoing events, so I know how to defend myself to the best of my ability.

I get what you are saying about the PCP now thank you for your advice on this point.

Again I keep coming back to my naievty in the workplace, this was my first time in employment, there were reasonable adjustments that could have been made at the start of my employment that would have made a significant improvement, had i been aware of them, to overall communication which you quite rightly highlight is my disability.

I feel if there had been some research on my employers behalf in the intial stages of my recruitment/employment, then my relationship with my colleagues and managers/supervisors would have developed in a more positive fashion which may even have avoided the performance issue and the most current incident, i.e. if the relationship was better I might have asked first?. Not sure if this is a defence, but its the truth.

This is why I am asking about where the responsibility for identifying reasonable adjustments lies?

Many thanks

- - - Updated - - -

PS I have had no 121 job chats with line manager/supervisor or appraisals since commencement, not sure if that is relevant also.

I did ask for them in December