Investigation & Disaplinary

[online1]

I have an Investigation meeting coming up tomorrow, where they said they will take it to disciplinary for 3 sickness instances within 12 months.
2x For IBS as I have recently been diagnosed quite bad.
1x Taken in an ambulance from work by a paramedic due to chest pain and high blood pressure.

I told work a long time ago my IBS & Anxiety was classed a disability but they have failed to document this on the system or make any reasonable adjustments. This manger has moved jobs to another company.

Please can anybody help me, What should I be saying etc.
I am quite worried about this and its making my illness worse with the worry.

Thank you

[Kati]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

:bump: for [MENTION=26290]mariefab[/MENTION] [MENTION=19071]teaboy2[/MENTION] xx

[mariefab]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

What you should be saying is that your employer has long been aware of your disability since you informed (name) in (whenever).
You are not responsible for management failures to document this.
A common reasonable adjustment is flexibility of trigger points for absence-related disciplinary action to take account of disability-realted sickness absence.
You could point out that the duty to make reasonable adjustments is ongoing and rests solely with the employer.
You might also mention that failure to make a reasonable adjustment is disability discrimination.

Bearing in mind the past failures to document, you might want to present this in writing to the investigation.

All that said, note that the first word is 'reasonable'. If you've had months off in the last year forget what I've written above.

[online1]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

What you should be saying is that your employer has long been aware of your disability since you informed (name) in (whenever).
You are not responsible for management failures to document this.
A common reasonable adjustment is flexibility of trigger points for absence-related disciplinary action to take account of disability-realted sickness absence.
You could point out that the duty to make reasonable adjustments is ongoing and rests solely with the employer.
You might also mention that failure to make a reasonable adjustment is disability discrimination.

Bearing in mind the past failures to document, you might want to present this in writing to the investigation.

All that said, note that the first word is 'reasonable'. If you've had months off in the last year forget what I've written above.

Thank you for all your help

[charitynjw]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

What you should be saying is that your employer has long been aware of your disability since you informed (name) in (whenever).
You are not responsible for management failures to document this.
A common reasonable adjustment is flexibility of trigger points for absence-related disciplinary action to take account of disability-realted sickness absence.
You could point out that the duty to make reasonable adjustments is ongoing and rests solely with the employer.
You might also mention that failure to make a reasonable adjustment is disability discrimination.

Bearing in mind the past failures to document, you might want to present this in writing to the investigation.

All that said, note that the first word is 'reasonable'. If you've had months off in the last year forget what I've written above.

[MENTION=26290]mariefab[/MENTION] - could you kindly expand on this? (for my information only)

[mariefab]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

Whether an adjustment is 'reasonable' is an objective test.
It depends on the circumstances of the individual case and things like:
The size and resources of the employer.
If the proposed adjustment is safe for the employee and others.
The cost and practicability of the adjustment.
If the proposed adjustment will remove, or significantly reduce, the comparative substantial disadvantage.

So, in online1's case (unless the Company is a micro-employer or we're talking about months of absence) it would be a reasonable adjustment to permit him/her to have more time off sick than non-disabled employees, before triggering disciplinary steps, to allow for flare-ups related to his/her disability.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

I have an Investigation meeting coming up tomorrow, where they said they will take it to disciplinary for 3 sickness instances within 12 months.
2x For IBS as I have recently been diagnosed quite bad.
1x Taken in an ambulance from work by a paramedic due to chest pain and high blood pressure.

I told work a long time ago my IBS & Anxiety was classed a disability but they have failed to document this on the system or make any reasonable adjustments. This manger has moved jobs to another company.

Please can anybody help me, What should I be saying etc.
I am quite worried about this and its making my illness worse with the worry.

Thank you

Hello Online1

I can imagine just how terrible your IBS is, especially its severity effect on you when all's you want to do is just be employed like normal people (who are not affected and can get on with their lives). Can you please tell use what type of job you do and what, in your view, would be a reasonable adjustment, if you have your own views of it What is a reasonable adjustment varies from person to person, situation to situation, and disability to disability. What type of support in your view do you think your employer could offer you? You have anxiety also no doubt acquired owing to your worries which may have caused the IBS in the longer term.

[online1]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

This is what i have said to the employer and they are still taking it to disciplinary for misconduct.

As stated In the investigation this document needs to be attached as part of the Investigation.
(emailed to employer)

You as an employer has long been aware of my disability (IBS/Anxiety/Depression) since I informed xxxx back on xx/xx/2015

I am not responsible for management failures to document this.

Reasonable adjustments should of been made and should be made going forward.

A common reasonable adjustment is flexibility of trigger points for absence related disciplinary action to take account of disability related sickness absence.

I would like to point out that the duty to make reasonable adjustments is ongoing and rests solely with the employer.

Failure to make reasonable adjustments is disability discrimination .

I have noticed my disability related sickness absence has been recorded incorrectly.

I would like you as an employer to correctly record disability related sickness absence on the system, this includes past failures to correctly record sickness , type , length , contact method , and even time.
An example of this is xx/xx/xx - xx/xx/xx this was actually 2 days not 3 and was recorded as Cold/Flu
I was taken away in an ambulance due to my disability and lack of reasonable adjustments, another example of this is management putting sickness or bug for IBS/Anxiety/Depression related disability sickness absence(s)


I am not responsible for management failures to document this correctly / accurately on the system.


I believe that if reasonable adjustments had been made,I would not of had as much time off and would not of had to leave work in an ambulance.


Reasonable adjustments for my disability may Include but not limited to.



Change 3 strike system for disability related sickness absence

Change working pattern 2+ Days off together

Toilet break / Urgent

Not to work all nights

To have some shifts during day at a store closer to home

Allow for doctors and tests.


Not to have less working hours than other's due to my disability as this would put me at a disadvantage and treat me less favourably.


I would like to inform you as my employer that this process is not helping my disability.


Why would you as an employer take this to disciplinary ?
This is not helping my disability and is treating me less favourably and is putting me at a disadvantage.


I was asked in the investigation did my job play in a part in making me unwell

I said no and I was referring to general working, however the lack of compassion support or care after I informed the person in charge I was ill, for example leaving me unconscious in the toilet for 10 minutes, telling me I cant leave and threatening me with a disciplinary and failure to make reasonable adjustments all contributed to making me so ill with my disability that I was taken away from work by a paramedic.

There was no AP on shift to help me call for medical care.

What if I had been in the freezer and not in the toilet ?


I have been told this will be taken to disciplinary this week for misconduct

You as an employer also have not:


Conducted the investigation with a minute taker and a question asker.

Told me I can be accompanied in the disciplinary.

Made reasonable adjustments for the disciplinary.

Allowed me to prepare as I have been refused documentation I have requested until the day.



I am also requesting that both myself and the work college that attend this meeting are paid.

Any advise on this would help

[Openlaw15]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

Do you have a Union representative to go in with you?

[online1]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

No i don't we were told we wern't allowed union's i know now this is not true but thats too late

[Openlaw15]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

No i don't we were told we wern't allowed union's i know now this is not true but thats too late

By law the employer has to provide you with a decent disciplinary hearing. Reasonable adjustments is a complex area of equality law. They are under a duty when they know you have a disability. IBS is certainly a disability under law.

Reasonable adjustments:

Change 3 strike system for disability related sickness absence

Potentially this is indirect discrimination as it applies to person with no disabilities and with disabilities. You are indirectly discriminated because your disability is likely to require more time off on 'limited occasions' where there are IBS triggers. Be careful here as the employer will say it requires more than a reasonable adjustment to frequently be off working owing to a disability. So, stress to the employer that your disability is controlled to a large extent.

Change working pattern 2+ Days off together

Is this a reasonable adjustment or a personal benefit to an employee?

Toilet break / Urgent

Please expound on this? For instance, most people have to go the toilet urgently with or with a disability. You could say go to the toilet 'at short notice or when the IBS flairs up.

Not to work all nights

To have some shifts during day at a store closer to home

This could be indirect discrimination too as although it could apply to employees with or without a disability, it restricts your quality of life as your free time away from work on nights mean you could be suffering flair ups at night which means you have to sleep in the day and any IBS problems 'on your off-days' have to be dealt with at night, where access to vital services are normally opened 9-5pm.

Allow for doctors and tests.

Yes you 'on occasion' 'may' require access to doctors and for the any respective tests. Again be careful how you word things, implying things are controlled from your end will make it difficult for the employer to say it is unreasonable/ more than a reasonable adjustment.

Not to have less working hours than other's due to my disability as this would put me at a disadvantage and treat me less favourably.

Elaborate on this, how? Why would you have less working hours? Do you mean because of the medical nature etc?

I would like to inform you as my employer that this process is not helping my disability.

Perhaps you could say, I have provided the information relating to my disability that will help you to understand your obligations to self by way of reasonable adjustments. Do not dictate but be assertive. In the current situation it my view that there are no such reasonable adjustments as per my disability.

[online1]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

Thank you again for your hep

In relation to less working hours we are on a 7.5 hours contract and I have been told that time off or any performance or adjustment requests will result in a reduction of hours and go to the person more (capable) for whatever reason.

Toilet break / urgent is exactly for the reasons you specified above.

2 days + off together was to allow my body to recover from any shift patterns and allow me to properly relax in preparation form work again

Thank you

[Openlaw15]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

Thank you again for your hep

In relation to less working hours we are on a 7.5 hours contract and I have been told that time off or any performance or adjustment requests will result in a reduction of hours and go to the person more (capable) for whatever reason.

Toilet break / urgent is exactly for the reasons you specified above.

2 days + off together was to allow my body to recover from any shift patterns and allow me to properly relax in preparation form work again

Thank you

A reasonable adjustment includes a financial obligation or what would be the point of a reasonable adjustment....if it were to the employee's detriment. You should be paid for time off if it's connected to your disability otherwise it's indirect discrimination as although employees are generally not paid for taking time off work, or leave work early etc, your situation relates in close proximity to your disability. Remember the employer only has a reasonable accommodation duty - if it went beyond this he likely could argue it's beyond a reasonable adjustment and his duties were discharged as their defence.

Take an A4 size pad into the disciplinary with you - highlight your notes using colored pens. When you're being asked questions, your friend/ colleague (if they will) can be taking further notes. If you do not understand the question being asked or not sure how it is relevant. Say, can you please give me an example. Answer the question only, ie do not provide any more information. As the rule of thumb, the shorter your sentence, responses, the more likely you'll not trip yourself up.

[online1]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

HR have just telephoned me to say they have received my documentation and my store manager will be having a word with me when i get in and if we can't sort something out to telephone them back.

I don't quite know what this means,

[mariefab]

Re: Investigation & Disaplinary

It could mean that HR is concerned about a potential discrimination claim.

Listen carefully to what your store manager has to say.
Keep your responses to a minimum.
If he/she asks what you want; say the reasonable adjustments suggested in your letter.
When the store manager has finished speaking ask him/her to confirm whatever was said in writing.
If possible make notes of what's said either at the time or as soon as possible after the conversation.