Withdrawal of job offer

[Rammy68]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

Thanks all for the advice. My claim is for 1 months salary - that is what the contractual notice period was.

I think there are examples in case law whereby the claimants have been given additional money for loss of opportunity - and I do think that is pertinent here as it was just before Christmas, very few employers were likely to set me on a week before Christmas, then pay best part of two weeks holiday.

I wrote again on Monday but still haven't got a response at all from the firm so I guess it may well go further.

In terms of the acceptance of the offer, it was a couple of days past the deadline, but the initial offer from them didn't arrive until 5 days after the date of their letter, I then took 7 more days (including a weekend) to respond. Their letter was dated Monday, arrived Thursday, I accepted the following Thursday. I was in touch with them via the agency throughout the period and they were definitely aware of the timing of the acceptance, and didn't have a problem with it. The reason given for rescinding the offer was due to internal restructure and a subsequent moratorium on recruitment - they have written to me and confirmed that.

Openlaw15 (5th Jan) - I thought I had already answered that question. I think it unfair to "name names" on this forum - but I did say he was my local UCATT representative. He is not therefore affiliated with any firm. I haven't complained - I've got enough on without complaining that someone has a difference of opinion to mine!

Regards,
Rammy68

[Openlaw15]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

No, the emoloyer cannot simply revoke the offer. What the emoloyer should have done is terminated the employment contract and paid in lieu of the contractual notice period, which is likely all the OP would be awarded. As I've said twice previously.

Proving any kind of discrimination would be difficult, and there hasn't been any indication that discrimination has occurred.

As for loss of opportunity - the OP waited until his/her redundancy had been confirmed before accepting the employment offer (3 days after the offer had 'closed'). Presumably if the redundancy had not been confirmed the OP would not have accepted the employment offer. Therefore proving a loss of opportunity would also be difficult, as the OP's Union has stated.

The law is good in theory but often in practice the end does not justify the means.

- Matt

A legal thinker makes inferences based on points of law....it's not about whether the facts suggest something. Facts are just words but legal facts are those which cannot be easily inferred unless one were looking for something legal.

[matt3942]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

Hi [MENTION=76801]Rammy68[/MENTION]

It's unusual to stipulate one-month's contractual notice period on the employee's part straight off the bat but if that's what the contract said, and if the salary was sizeable, it could be worth pursuing. I do think it's going to be difficult for you to show you have suffered a loss though.

Please do let us know what you decide to do and keep us updated with your progress.

Kind Regards,

Matt

[Openlaw15]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

Thanks all for the advice. My claim is for 1 months salary - that is what the contractual notice period was.

I think there are examples in case law whereby the claimants have been given additional money for loss of opportunity - and I do think that is pertinent here as it was just before Christmas, very few employers were likely to set me on a week before Christmas, then pay best part of two weeks holiday.

I wrote again on Monday but still haven't got a response at all from the firm so I guess it may well go further.

In terms of the acceptance of the offer, it was a couple of days past the deadline, but the initial offer from them didn't arrive until 5 days after the date of their letter, I then took 7 more days (including a weekend) to respond. Their letter was dated Monday, arrived Thursday, I accepted the following Thursday. I was in touch with them via the agency throughout the period and they were definitely aware of the timing of the acceptance, and didn't have a problem with it. The reason given for rescinding the offer was due to internal restructure and a subsequent moratorium on recruitment - they have written to me and confirmed that.

Openlaw15 (5th Jan) - I thought I had already answered that question. I think it unfair to "name names" on this forum - but I did say he was my local UCATT representative. He is not therefore affiliated with any firm. I haven't complained - I've got enough on without complaining that someone has a difference of opinion to mine!

Regards,
Rammy68

Ok i'll put it another way Remmy, if you do not get the Union behind you, you're dead in the water, as it were. I recently represented a family member whom the Union said something to the effect 'it's too late there is no case anyway.' So, I looked up the rules for that Union Its Constitution), observed who's who in the organisation, the relevant whomever/s (senior regional managers) and the Union's procedure. Guess what, my family member has a claim going through now ..because of me. Unless the Union investigating is a legal professional - i mean professional - not assistant, unless someone has an in-depth legal background as far as am concerned it's not sufficient. If it is potentially a legal situation and legal cover is provided as part of that union subscription, only the a reasonable solicitor's investigation is sufficient.

[matt3942]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

[MENTION=76801]Rammy68[/MENTION]

I would now forget any union involvement. If you wish to bring a claim against your new employer for breach of contract, you can do this through the small claims court, without the union's help.

Before starting your claim you should write to your new employer detailing how much you are owed and why, and stating it has 14 days to respond, after which you will bring a claim for breach of contract. Be sure to send your letter by recorded delivery and keep a copy for yourself.

To start your claim you will need to complete form N1, which is available at www.justice.gov.uk or you can submit your claim electronically at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk.

More information about the process can be found here: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/la.../small-claims/.

Kind Regards,

Matt

[Rammy68]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

Hi Matt - thanks for the practical advice - that is exactly the route I am following. I have written twice now, both sent recorded delivery.

I will wait until next week, then try and ring once more, then start the court claim.

From my point of view (and everyone is entitled to an opinion!), I was expecting to get paid from the 14th December, as that is what the contract said, but I haven't received any wages in the intervening period - there's clearly a loss. I have claimed a month's salary, as that would be the notice in the contract period. Hopefully it won't come to court, but their silence is concerning!

Ta
Rammy68

[Rammy68]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

Stop press - Just received an email from head of HR....says they are looking at the points raised and will get back to me next week - holidays have got in the way he says....

[matt3942]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

Hi [MENTION=76801]Rammy68[/MENTION]

You are correct in that you have technically lost the one-month's salary you would have been entitled to (the date you would have been paid from doesn't matter), and that is the amount you should be claiming for, which I understand you are. However, I don't think a claim for loss of opportunity would be successful.

Personally, to show a willingness to settle the issue amicably, I would now give HR the opportunity to come back to you. If the issue hasn't been resolved by close of business on Thursday 14th, I would send the 'letter before action' letter - making it clear you will take legal action - on Friday to arrive with them on Monday.

Please keep us updated.

Kind Regards,

Matt

[Rammy68]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

Will do Matt - received and understood. I do think the claim for a months salary is reasonable, and I'll give their HR until next Thursday and we'll see what develops. I guess the next stage will be if they refuse or make a lower offer.....

I'll keep the forum informed.

Regards,
Rammy68

[matt3942]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

[MENTION=76801]Rammy68[/MENTION]

It's not a matter of reasonableness; you are legally entitled to pay in lieu of the one-month's contractual notice you would have received had you started and been dismissed on day one.

Out of interest, are you able to upload an image of that part of the contract so we can be certain you are in fact entitled to one-month's contractual notice?

Kind Regards,

Matt

[Rammy68]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

I could - but I can't seem to upload photos, only from a URL....

The actual wording is :-

Probationary period - The first 3 months of your employment will be probationary and during or at the end of this period your employment may be terminated on four weeks written notice by you or by the company. Towards the end of your probationary period the company will review your performance and reserves the right to extend your probationary period

Notice and Termination of Employment - If your employment continues after the end of your probationary period, the period of notice given in writing to terminate your employment is :
o Four weeks notice if you have been continuously employed for less than four weeks.....

It goes on then if I had been employed for longer etc etc.

As mentioned, the contract is signed by their director and I have said that I'll be claiming all my time from this point forward and will be looking for loss of earnings if we have to take it further.

Regards,
Rammy68

[Openlaw15]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

@Rammy68

I would now forget any union involvement. If you wish to bring a claim against your new employer for breach of contract, you can do this through the small claims court, without the union's help.

Before starting your claim you should write to your new employer detailing how much you are owed and why, and stating it has 14 days to respond, after which you will bring a claim for breach of contract. Be sure to send your letter by recorded delivery and keep a copy for yourself.

To start your claim you will need to complete form N1, which is available at www.justice.gov.uk or you can submit your claim electronically at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk.

More information about the process can be found here: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/la.../small-claims/.

Kind Regards,

Matt

Matt - do you think as a manager that your view could be a tad prejudiced? If it were to go to court and the claimant lost they'd have to pay costs, if they tried to go to tribunal they would be responsible represented their own person they could have to pay costs too, under this new harsh system, as well as the absurd tribunal fee. I am glad am on this forum as I can represent a view from any reasonable hypothetical standard.

[Rammy68]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

I don't really understand what openlaw15 is trying to say..... except that if I go to court, or a tribunal, and lose, then I would be responsible for costs.... what exactly is it to "represent a view from any reasonable hypothetical standard" and how does that help move my case forward in terms of sound advice?

Rammy68

[NWHC]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

Rammy
You are not the only one who is a bit confused
If you went to a small claims court it is highly unlikely that if you lost you would have to pay costs , this punishment is usually reserved for people who abuse the system. For example if you have been told by your own solicitor that the case has no merit
Tribunals are different things in that you have to pay quite a lot to use them although if you qualify there are fee remissions I think

[Openlaw15]

Re: Withdrawal of job offer

Rammy
You are not the only one who is a bit confused
If you went to a small claims court it is highly unlikely that if you lost you would have to pay costs , this punishment is usually reserved for people who abuse the system. For example if you have been told by your own solicitor that the case has no merit
Tribunals are different things in that you have to pay quite a lot to use them although if you qualify there are fee remissions I think

rammy has been informed there is no merit

- - - Updated - - -

I don't really understand what openlaw15 is trying to say..... except that if I go to court, or a tribunal, and lose, then I would be responsible for costs.... what exactly is it to "represent a view from any reasonable hypothetical standard" and how does that help move my case forward in terms of sound advice?

Rammy68

I was referring to a legal standard as to how the court views certain people when compared to others. Rammy, you have definitely accepted the redundancy offer, is this correct? If so, could you change your mind and stay?