Contract query

[missgruntled]

My employer put FTCs in place for half the staff 2 yrs ago. They have recently run out, expired. They didnt send letters or speak about it to anyone until just recently when news travelled that our contracts wont be renewed until April. We are all at different start times obviously and Im one of the longer serving. I should by this time no longer be given fixed term having by April exceeded the 4 yr limit.

So what we have is FTCs for 2 consecutive years then nothing for 6 mths only a verbal contract then there will be a written and possibly for some the restart of fixed term?? Has the laws changed recently?

Im wondering if anyone can shed any light on why they would do this. I know they have acquired another similiar business and maybe plan to amalgamate that Is there some smart reason for this? Please note this company doesnt do things openly or fairly. Im wondering if they are up to something.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice :tinysmile_grin_t:

[mariefab]

Re: Contract query

There hasn't been a recent change.
I can only guess that they mistakenly believe that the staff who were placed on fixed-term contracts somehow have far fewer rights than their other employees.
(In some respects this used to be true in the last century.)
Or, it could be that (relying on their employees ignorance of the law) they think that these employees might feel less secure in their employment and therefore unlikely to question the employers practices or complain about unfair treatment.
Some bad employers use the renewal of FTCs to change employees terms and conditions to their detriment in direct violation of the law. Sadly, because union membership isn't as popular as it once was, they get away with it because their employees don't know any better. They assume that, because the employer claims that they can do it, it must be true.

Nobody's on a verbal contract. If a fixed term contract expires and the employee continues working after that date an indefinite contract is implied.

[missgruntled]

Re: Contract query

I really appreciate you replying Mariefab. A particular textbook, from script employment advice service (I think you know who mean) told me that I am now on a verbal contract (?) and I wasnt believing it so Ive turned to here.

I wonder if anyone would now what would happen should this company be either taken over or take over another company? I heard a member of staff talking to another and caught words 'if he (the owner) is stressed now wait til they take over' It could b applying to another aspect of the company but what would happen to me and the others in limbo if it were the company itself??

Any ideas welcome, I need a head start on these sneaky employers. Many thanks.

[mariefab]

Re: Contract query

None of you are in limbo.
You are all on permanent contracts.
Your FTCs automatically reverted to permanent contracts the day after they expired.
So, in the event of any Company changes the whole of the workforce will have the same rights.
At the first sign of this employer trying to pull a fast one, let us know.

Out of nosiness; what reason did they give for putting half of you on FTCs?

[missgruntled]

Re: Contract query

Thank you again for taking time to reply mariefab. Sorry for my late reply.Good to now that in their delaying/ ending these stupid ftcs that we are now classed as permanent. I will certainly be watching out and posting for help when or if theres more news. Not nosey at all, I will p/m though as the reason is unusual.

[judgemental24]

Re: Contract query

When you say FTC

Is that fixed or full time contracts, and if fixed term are they substantive contracts??

They reason i ask is the reference to the 4 year limit.
That is the maximum on fixed term temporary contracts before having to be given permanent contracts

Sorry to ask but shooting in the dark on this one with limited info

[mariefab]

Re: Contract query

judgemental
The employer believed that they were fixed term contracts.
They were imposed on existing employees for a completely stupid and pointless reason by an obviously clueless employer who probably thought that they were thereby limiting the rights of these employees.

missgruntled
The imposition of these contracts had no effect whatsoever. None of you ever stopped being permanent employees.

[missgruntled]

Re: Contract query

Mariefab, thats good to know but very annoying. I (others too) have spent 2 yrs feeling aggrieved. They have used ftcs (and other tactics) to keep us on our toes and uncertain where we stand and so they think this makes more flexible, willing employees?? Well to any employers out there reading this, you are very wrong. It has created unhappy and disloyal employees. You cant imagine the divide, competitiveness and resentment it created. Its an easy way not to remove employees- but to cause trouble in your staff. If you dont want your name made mud and yourself loathed then treat your employees equally and fairly. Nurture and respect dont threaten and manipulate. Ever heard of shooting yourself in the foot?

[missgruntled]

Re: Contract query

This is a continuing problem and the long awaited new contracts (see first post) have now been issued. I am very surprised to hear that they are again fixed term. I do not have mine as Im on holiday but Ive been informed by a coworker whos been there longer than me. This is not expected at all. Im sure its not legal. To recap: total employment just over 4yrs/ "normal" contract for first 19 months/ 2 x 1yr ftc consecutively/ nothing on paper for last 5 months/ now back to fixed term. How is this possible?

They sent them out just days before the start date, pushing people to sign. Im dreading going back. Can anyone help advise me. Thanks.

[mariefab]

Re: Contract query

Do you have a copy of the earlier 'fixed-term' contract?
If so, did the terms (pay, hours, holiday entitlement etc.) differ in any way from your first 'permanent' contract?

[missgruntled]

Re: Contract query

Yes I have copies of both consec ftcs. I have no contract or written statement for the first 19 mths of employment. The employment either verbally or on paper has never changed except holiday arrangements, since my start date. The ftcs never changed anything , except, the companies entitlement to get rid of staff (if valid to start with as discussed above)

After 4 yrs 2 mths I didnt want to stuck with a looming end date..they must think they can use that date if they want to. How can they re issue an ftc after a 5mth gap or when Ive been there all this time. I dont know how they are doing this.

Thanks for replying.

[mariefab]

Re: Contract query

What changed about the holiday arrangements?
Did this change just affect those on alleged FTCs, or all employees doing the same sort of role?

- - - Updated - - -

P.S. Don't worry about these FTCs. Unless they're very different from the last ones they'll have no effect.

[missgruntled]

Re: Contract query

Hi...hol went from 6wks down to 5.6. No big deal and yes affects everyone. Those on perm and ftc.

Is the 5mth gap relevant?

I am concerned surely if I sign I accept whatever they plan to do.

Thanks for quick reply mariefab

[mariefab]

Re: Contract query

Well, let's wait and see what it says first, in case it's full of changes. Tell them you want to read it at home and you'll return it in a day or so (then come back here).

They probably (wrongly) think that they're somehow limiting your employment rights by issuing them (or at least making you believe that) and the plan is the same as before. i.e. To make you feel less secure and more likely to put up with their crap without complaint.

[missgruntled]

Re: Contract query

I went back in friday and opened contract trying not to elt the others see my angst. I was astonished to find it is a perm one. I thought it would be fixed because another had been given ftc and they have been there longer. I think the only reason they did it is because theyve given one of their favourites a perm and she has been there 8 mths less than me and they knew I would most likely find out as she has a big mouth. Whereas I havent told a soul. I feel annoyed for the aforementioned colleague, they really should have perm. As you have been saying mariefab it doesnt matter anyway but still I think once signed they can terminate on the date and would be willing to take the chance that no one has a clue which it would with most people as they dont ask questions.

A newer young employee just signed without reading, they have no clue what ftc is, which is what they got and of course there were no personal meetings to hand these out so management could be correct and explain.

There are no differences to last contract except increase in wage and holiday time. But on the acceptance forms (not in contract it that accompanied our contracts it says that we give consent for them to access personal and sensitive data....the lack of detail is a shot in the foot for them so I wasnt too concerned and also I was too exhausted to start another defence. But... what does this mean?

Im relieved but that I dont have to put a grievance in about contract and battle with them. They wouldnt have backed down.

Thanks for your replies.