Unfair dismissal?

[Ark2015]

My boyfriend has just been dismissed from work for gross misconduct. The incident happened 6 months ago. Basically he was texting (outside of work hours) a girl, the text were flirty text, both him and he girl were sending texts and they both sent images of themselves. The texting fizzled out and they have been working together without any issues since. A few week back the girls boyfriend found out about the texting and she got upset at work, her supervisor asked why she was upset and when she told him they reported my boyfriend to HR which has resulted in his dismissal for Harrasment and going against company values.

I'm not defending his actions but I do think his dismissal is a bit harsh so would like advice on if he has a case for unfair dismissal. He had worked for the company for 22 years, was a valued, top performing member of staff, sticking to the company values for these 22 years, working unpaid over times, going in on days off to ensure deadlines were met etc. should he have been at least given a written warning before being dismissed? If the texting were out of work hours and the girl was replying to them??

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

He needs to appeal and set out the true facts of the story in hes appeal letter and make clear it was mutual flirtation and happened outside of work hours, and that it was not therefore sexual harassment or harassment of any kind or sort, nor a breach of company policy (since it was outside of work). Point out that if that was the case then she too should have been disciplined and dismissed since she two send your bf the same type of flirty text and explicit images.

I would also suggest you get your boyfriend to call ACAS too!

[happylife]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

Can they really dismiss him immediately without suspending first and fully investigating the incident ?

Does he have evidence of texts and times they were sent ?

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

I think he probably was suspended and went through a full disciplinary procedure. There's no mention to the contrary by the OP.

[Ark2015]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

Thank you for the reply.

There was an investigation which consisted of a statement from the girl and a statement from my boyfriend. None of them have any of the texts as evidence and because my boyfriend was so ashamed of what he was being accused of he just wanted it over with so he did not discuss the matter with anyone until after his appeal when the final decision was made. The annoying thing is he thought the right thing to do was to be honest, if he had lied it would of been his word against hers and he would probably still have his job and got a wrap on the knuckles. In his appeal he pointed out that that the incident was last year, out of work hours and that she had also been sending texts but they just seemed to dismiss these facts and kept going on about company values, he was office staff and she was working on the factory floor which they also kept pointing out but surely that shouldn't matter?

[happylife]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

Thank you for the reply.

There was an investigation which consisted of a statement from the girl and a statement from my boyfriend. None of them have any of the texts as evidence and because my boyfriend was so ashamed of what he was being accused of he just wanted it over with so he did not discuss the matter with anyone until after his appeal when the final decision was made. The annoying thing is he thought the right thing to do was to be honest, if he had lied it would of been his word against hers and he would probably still have his job and got a wrap on the knuckles. In his appeal he pointed out that that the incident was last year, out of work hours and that she had also been sending texts but they just seemed to dismiss these facts and kept going on about company values, he was office staff and she was working on the factory floor which they also kept pointing out but surely that shouldn't matter?

Whilst I don't condone sending sexual pictures to anyone as this dangerous as your boyfriend has found out.

I'm a bit puzzled how this actually constitutes as Gross misconduct. (although nothing surprises me anymore).

No evidence of Harassment (which is what they have sacked him for)

non company communication happening out of office hours as a private exchange.

No damage to company reputation. No physical violence.

What does it say about company values in the company handbook ?

Has he been warned before for anything ?

Did she admit sending him texts ? pity he didn't have these.

Seems a bit harsh.. Particularly if she went along with the exchange. She should have complained immediately if she was unhappy.

[Ark2015]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

This was one of the points in his appeal, if the girl was so 'harassed' why didn't she report it at the time. To be honest if she hadn't of had an argument with Her boyfriend and got upset at work then the issue probably still wouldn't of been raised.

I think it's the fact that images were sent that the company had an issue with.

They kept pointing out that my boyfriend couldnt get that trust/reputation back with people that knew about the incident on the factory floor although all the messages of support he has had are from people in the factory.

Yes She also admitted sending texts.

Company values are pretty standard ones, acting with integrity, working as a team etc. I think they are using the social
Media policy as a reference for the dismissal which states about inappropriate images etc. yes the images may have been inappropriate but the girl didn't say/report it at the time of receiving any and also sent one herself!

At one point she did remind my boyfriend that he had a girlfriend which I think the company are translating as her telling by boyfriend to stop the texts. At this point my boyfriend did stop the flirty texts but was still sending general texts such as how was your day, what you upto at the weekend etc.

[happylife]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

You're very loyal to your boyfriend considering what he did he's lucky you're sticking with him.

That still doesn't mean he wasnt dismissed unfairly. I think we are on a very fine line here. In the company handbook it does mention social media or innapproprite messages. Was Your boyfriend in a higher position and expected to display this to factory workers ?. And the trust relationship maybe now broken in the companies eyes not his coworkers ?

Morally things looks bad here for him especially her involvement but the company may have a duty to dismiss senior staff. I'm not saying it's fair at all. It will be interesting what others far more experienced than me would say here.

Basically nowadays work is work and you have to be so so careful not to do anything outside of this. I've learnt the hard way also.
Social media, Facebook snapchat. All dangerous now for workers.

[Ark2015]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

Believe me he knows how lucky he is!

Office workers are generally seen as more senior than factory workers.

I just wanted to see if anyone thought it would be worth seeking legal advice but to be honest I think when it comes to issues like this a company can do what they like and its not worth fighting. It just seems like a kick in the teeth that after 22 years of service with an unblemished record that it's ended because of a few text messages. Like you said, these days you have to be so careful!! I just hope this doesn't affect any future employment

[happylife]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

Has he discussed with ACAS ? Proceduraly he may have been dismissed incorrectly.

And the fact a co worker still has her job after admitting she participated in the exchanges may have some discrimination aspects to it however senior he was.

22 years unblemished is long and surprising they have not taken this into consideration.

I paid (wasted) Ł400 paying employment solicitor to look over my case to tell me I didn't have one. There are free advice centre who can look at your case and decide. The initial meeting in usually free. Don't pay anything. I made that mistake. See
http://www.lawworks.org.uk/clinics

also I was asked in future interviews why I left my job. Telling them you were dismissed is tough. Its like a criminal record. For me anyway. Your boyfriend may be lucky and get another job quickly without hassle.

Others may advise further.

[stevemLS]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

Just a thought - the texts weren't sent on a work mobile?

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

Good question @stevemLS - IF he was using a work provided mobile phone to send the text and images and she was using her own phone, then that would put the OP's bf in breach of social media and company equipment usage policies, where as the woman he text wouldn't be since it was her own phone.

Social media policy relates to publishing of content that could do harm to the company reputation on public forums, like FB, twitter and other social media sites. But a company mobile would be covered by company equipment usage policies and if it was outside of work hours would be irrelevant.

If it wasn't a work mobile phone, then i'd think he'd have a good case - The amount of people the send explicit photos via mobile nowadays make it a normal modern method of flirting. The fact is the woman consented and even engaged in doing the same, so it was mutual flirtation. She may even have committed libel by making this false accusation of harassment to hers and your bfs employer, when she was fully aware it was not harassment but mutual flirtation!

But then there is another worrying aspect - Her relationship with her current bf, she is either incredibly naive and did this because her BF told her too, or there is some sort of abuse going on in the controlling and possessive psychological sense i.e. her bf got a kick out of your bf being sacked and therefore makes him feel the better man or is meant as a warning to others to not flirt with his gf. What makes me think this is because if this happened over a year ago, then why was her bf on her case about it when she wasn't even with it the time (which i assume is the case)? Therefore the question the employer should have been asking themselves is, why now? whats changed? is he current bf abusive towards her? does she need our support?

I know i've moved on from yours and your bfs side of the story to what her side could be, but if she is in an abusive relationship then it would explain her actions! Though it wouldn't change the fact your BF has a case against his employers, but only if he used his own mobile and not a company one, and likely a claim for libel against the girl in question.

[happylife]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

Just a thought - the texts weren't sent on a work mobile?

Good point about this.

Also when was he dismissed after appeal? You have 3 months from dismissal date to lodge early conciliation EC with ACAS otherwise it may never get to any hearing.

[Ark2015]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

Thank you all for the information.

It was not a company mobile that was used, they were both using their own personal phone.

The question you ask about why now is one we have been asking since the issue was brought up. The texting stopped and they have been Working together fine since. I just don't see why they employer also did not ask this question during the investigation!

[stevemLS]

Re: Unfair dismissal?

My suspicion, founded upon nothing more substantial than fresh air, is that the femailes bf discovered the texts on her phone and she took the easy way out, to complain that they were unwelcome rather than her being an active participant.

Of course, that would be incredibly difficult to prove and helps OP not a bit, apologies for speculation, not a habit of mine.