Horrible Training Terms in Contract

[usuallywin]

Dear all,

I need some help with my employment contract as it contains some very harsh terms.

I signed a 2 years employment contract. There is a clause in the contract that says I am liable for the full training fee if I work for them for less than 2 years. So there is no sliding scale. After 2 months of training, I worked for the company for 1 year and 9 months.

I decided to leave after serving the company for more than 90% of the two years, and HR tried to recover full training cost which is more than 10K pounds for its internal training.

Can I argue that it is a penalty clause as it does not take into account the benefit the company gains during the time I served it?

If the penalty clause argument fails, can I at least only pay the 10% of the training fee? Or is it impossible to argue that because the full repayment is an explicit clause and I signed it?

I would really appreciate your advice. Thanks.

[des8]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

Hi and welcome.
Others more versed in Employment Law will be along to help, but in the meantime can you advise if the company have given you a breakdown of their costs?
They can only claim for their material losses, and as these are internal training schemes you require a breakdown based on multiple attendances.
For example if 6 people attend a session that costs £5000 in lecturers salary and materials, these costs should be divided between all 6.

[usuallywin]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

Thank you des8, does it matter that I was aware of the price when I signed the contract. Can they argue that I have provided my consent?

[des8]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

I wouldn't think so. IMO they can only claim back their actual costs. That is only my opinion!
There are others here with more knowledge of employment law and I hope they'll advise, but as it is now weekend it may be a while.

[teaboy2]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

Yes they are only entitled to claim back their actual costs.

Can you post up a copy of the contract showing all the terms associated with the training etc, minus yours and the employers details if possible?

[usuallywin]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

Yes they are only entitled to claim back their actual costs.

Can you post up a copy of the contract showing all the terms associated with the training etc, minus yours and the employers details if possible?

I am terribly worried that my employer will hunt me down for bring this up in a public forum.

Teaboy2 and Des8, I have PM you both an extract of the contract regarding the training fee. It is very short. Please take a look.
It basically specifies that the company will waive the training cost if I stay with them for two years. And if I resign before that, they can recover the full cost, regardless of the amount of time I served the company.

If anyone else want a copy, please just let me know.

Thanks a lot.

[des8]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

As I said earlier, you need to obtain a breakdown of their ACTUAL costs. The contract actually states that "you shall repay to the company the full costs of the training fees .......".
That is not quite the same as charging full fees.
They should supply a detailed account of how those costs are arrived at.
The amounts the are trying to charge are suspiciously rounded.
I suspect you can challenge their deductions from your final salary payment, but Teaboy knows lots more than I about employment matters, so await his input.

[teaboy2]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

Well firts of all in the letter you PM'd me and des, they state they shall deduct some from your finaly salary. They can not do this, unless they have your written consent to make such deductions. I would write to them that you do not consent to them making any deductions from your final pay package am point out to them it is unlawful and a breach of section 13 of the employment rights act 1996 to make such deductions from wages without the expressed written consent of the employee. Des you were right to suspect their right to make such deductions from wages! regardless of the clause 8.4 as such clause is contradictory to section 13 and is being forced on the employee.

I too, like des, i'm suspicious of the fees they have listed. So as Des advised, as part of the same letter request an actual break down of their costs they have paid out towards your training. Pointing out you do not believe the rounded figures given to be their actual costs. Request copies of invoices for all and each training course, training days you have been on. Point out that the onus is on them to proof their actual costs. And giving rounded figures is not proof of costs, but given they are rounded, they are, in fact, a misrepresentation of the true costs. Such misrepresentation if they were to make a financial gain from it would be a breach of the fraud act 2006 - A criminal offense.

Now also point out that such costs were not made clear in your contract of employment. Therefore they it was not possible for you to negotiate the terms in regards to such costs and therefore said term requiring you to pay such costs, were such costs were unknown to you as to how much they would be, is likely to be deemed invalid term and an unfair contractual term.

Then see what their reply is!

[usuallywin]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

As I said earlier, you need to obtain a breakdown of their ACTUAL costs.

I will ask the company to provide a breakdown.

If they come up with a reasonable-ish breakdown, what will be my position? Regarding the express term that "I shall repay the full cost", how should it be reconciled with the "actual loss" you mentioned earlier? In terms of actual loss, they don't really lose anything, as they have recovered most of the training cost through my near 2 years service.

Again, really grateful for your advice.

[teaboy2]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

Well at the end of the day they have to act reasonably - That means setting up what is an affordable repayment plan with you. But the clause may well be deemed a penalty given they will have likely regained their costs in training during the 1 year 9months after your initial 2 month training period - Which means you were there 23 months and only 1 month off two years. Break down there total costs by dividing by 24 and it will give you the monthly value sum of the training. Offer them that monthly value as sum as full and final showing how you worked it out and why, given you worked 23 months you feel they are only entitled to be compensated for the 1 month you had remaining and not from the months before that where they not only regained the training costs but also profited from your employment with them.

But don't do that till they give you a break down of costs because 14K for 2 months internal training for what you were trained on, is bullshit!! (unless they hired a 3rd party to come in)

[usuallywin]

Re: Horrible Training Terms in Contract

Thank you so much.