Rights to pay

[mad-minion]

Hello, I'd be very grateful for your help.
I have worked for my employer cleaning for 13 years; 5 days a week, 3 early morning hours per day, Monday to Friday as set out in my contract.

During January there were some refurbishments in the building and on the Monday after I finished work I got an email to say I was not required to work on the next 2 days, (Tues and Weds). This was the first time I had been informed about this.

Fine, I assumed I would be paid as this wasn't my fault or decision and I was available and willing to work. I am paid weekly straight into the bank so I checked my account and the normal amount I expected was credited, 4 days pay, ( I was off sick on the Friday before and our week runs from Thurs to Weds). I did get a payslip but didn't open it till a few weeks ago.

When I did look at my payslip I discovered that those 2 days were put in as holiday, and I had no knowledge or agreement to this. No holiday form was completed or signed by me.

I queried this and they are now saying that I was informed about the 2 days off/holiday by my line manager 2 weeks prior, but I definitely wasn't. If my line manager had told me this I would certainly remember! I would have questioned the matter at the time as I would expect to be paid my usual wage and not have to take it as holiday!

I went to my local CAB and showed them my emails and they have agreed that I should have been paid in the first place as I was available to work my usual hours and my employer hadn't even given me the appropriate notice for taking holiday entitlement, (if that was the case).

So, do you agree with the CAB advice, should I have been paid my normal wage for those two days?

I'm finding the whole matter quite upsetting, I feel I'm being taken advantage of and it's not nice. I don't get on with my line manager either, he's been there longer than me.
They are saying now that as I have had those two days holiday then I MAY have two days unpaid extra this year...! how kind!
All I want is my 2 days PAID holiday reinstated. Is that so unreasonable?

Thanks for listening, sorry for the long message

[Tools]

Re: Rights to pay

Hi and welcome to the forum.

You & CAB are quite correct, you should have been given adequate notice, preferably in writing/email from your line manager.

If they have agreed to 2 additional days holiday, then make sure this is given to you in writing, that way it cannot be disputed at a later date.

I understand that on principle you would rather it not have happened and would them to be "reinstated" but this has exactly the same effect and will have been proposed to simplify things for them from an admin point of view.

The end result is the same, but do insist that it is conformed in writing.

The fact that you/your manager don't get on should not be allowed to cloud the issue, if you allow it to it will create more problems which I am sure you could do without.

[mad-minion]

Re: Rights to pay

Hi Tools, thank you for your help.
Just to clarify, when I ask my employer for the two days holiday in writing should I stress that they be paid holiday? So far they have only offered two days unpaid.
Thanks again

[Tools]

Re: Rights to pay

If the two days you were forced to take off were unpaid then yes, the additional two days should then be paid.

However, if they paid you for the last 2 days holiday then no, otherwise they would be paying you in effect twice.

[mad-minion]

Re: Rights to pay

Thank you for all your help. I didn't get any further with the matter as I was too tired of it all to persue, maybe I should have but I had a lot of family problems at the same time, 4 deaths in the family and my mother was hospitalised twice so that was enough for me to deal with at the time. I did try to talk to the club secretary but he refused to see me, even for an informal chat, without there being witnesses present! I was wasting my breath.

Today I received a letter telling me I have to attend a disciplinary meeting due to my poor performance, I can't believe it! Ok I have been unhappy at work the past few months because of all this and may have not been giving 100%, and after 13.5 years I feel so angry and disappointed. I just want to walk away from it all.

The meeting is on Thursday, what do you think should be my best approach, I am planning on leaving but want to do it properly?

Thanks

[Tools]

Re: Rights to pay

Sorry to hear about your family circumstances, doesn't make things any easier for you.

Have they outlined exactly how/why they feel you have been under performing.

They have given adequate notice to attend the hearing, have they informed you that you may also be accompanied by a colleague, I recommend that you do so.

I assume they are aware of the recent problems at home and should hopefully take this on board, not as an excuse but certainly as a factor in your performance.

If you are already planning on leaving I would suggest trying to make sure you find other work before doing so, then if you still want to leave check with your contract and see how much notice you have to give. From there it will simply be a matter of giving written notice to your employer, clearly stating the date of your last working day.

Check you have no outstanding money to pay to your employer, for example goods you may have bought from them, any money you may have to pay back for training etc and also get them to calculate any outstanding holiday entitlement you may have.

Let us know the outcome of the disciplinary and we can advise you from there if needed.

[leclerc]

Re: Rights to pay

I work in cleaning so can I ask whether you are a lone cleaner or part of a team? Has your supervisor been telling you that your area has had complaints from the client?
I work in cleaning and I worked until a few months ago for a company working in an office where you were paid two weekly. I was the supervisor and, there are times where the client is a very picky office manager or someone new to the job. That might be the case.

I think you need to think about whether there has been persistent complaints within your allocated area or whether your supervisor has told you of these things(sometimes even the supervisor can be crap....I wasn't btw ).

[teaboy2]

Re: Rights to pay

Hang on they told you they didn't need you for the two days (your entitled to be paid for those two days as if you had worked them) and they treated those two days as holidays which they deducted from your holiday pay, then offered you an additional 2 days holiday unpaid. Sorry but your entitled to an additional 2 days paid holiday not unpaid.

YOu have grounds to bring a claim under section 13 of the employment rights act 1996 as not paying you for those 2 days and deducting them from your paid holiday entitlement and in return offering you an additional two days unpaid holiday is an unauthorised deduction as you should be given 2 days additional paid holiday, because if not then your still 2 days pay short as a result of not being needed those 2 days for which you should have been paid for anyway! You have effectively lost 2 days paid holiday that you would have still been entitled to (and still are entitled to) if they had treated those 2 days where you were not required as a normal working day and paid you accordingly!

[mad-minion]

Re: Rights to pay

Hi Tools, thank you for your reply.
I had to ask about the reasons for the meeting and apparently it's because I failed to complete one brass cleaning job when told to and also I spoke with an unacceptable attitude to the chief cleaner/maintenance man. Also he is saying that I don't work my full three hours and sometimes only as little as 1.5 hours, we get paid for three hours per morning. That is an exageration and furthermore all four of us never do the full three as we've been told to leave when we are finished so I am being singled out. My job as a cleaner varies every day and I don't stop for a tea break like they all do, I carry on working. One of the others works 1.5 hours regularly once a week and he must know this but hasn't pulled her up about it.
This 'line manager' as he is now called comes and goes and is the same person I have had a very bad time with mentioned in my original post and we do not get on at all now so I feel he is picking me out on purpose. He did know about the family problems too as I had to have time off for the funerals which I had to take as holiday as well, no compassionate days were ever suggested.
I have been there 13.5 years and have had no complaints at all, in fact the secretary mentioned in an email to me just before Christmas that we are a good team and people often complimented us about how nice the club is.
I'm not sure what will happen as I think I will be given some time to do whatever they ask, and if not I will get dismissed. I want to leave but I need the money.
Sorry to go on, thanks for your time and input.

[mad-minion]

Re: Rights to pay

Hi Leclerc,
Thanks for your message, I work with three others in a big social club and have been for 13.5 years without any complaints to date. If you see my message to Tools it explains a bit more about the situation.
Trouble is of all many the jobs you carry out correctly and thoroughly someone will find something that has been missed or not finished, if they want to find it they will.
Thanks again

[mad-minion]

Re: Rights to pay

Hi Teaboy2,
Thanks for your input and yes I was sure this was the case and as much as I tried no one would listen to me so I let time pass (family troubles), and now it is too late I think to persue the matter.
The secretary at the club wouldn't even let me talk to him while my line manager had access to him all along. Very frustrating for me, he told them that he told me about the club closure well before but I know for sure he didn't as I am hard of hearing and they know I have to be spoken to directly to make sure I've heard, and it should have been in writing, this didn't happen, he is mistaken.
It's never ending.
Thanks again

[mad-minion]

Re: Rights to pay

Tools PS they gave me 3 days notice and I can't find anyone to accompany me unfortunately but I really would like someone to witness what is said etc

[teaboy2]

Re: Rights to pay

Hi Teaboy2,
Thanks for your input and yes I was sure this was the case and as much as I tried no one would listen to me so I let time pass (family troubles), and now it is too late I think to persue the matter.
The secretary at the club wouldn't even let me talk to him while my line manager had access to him all along. Very frustrating for me, he told them that he told me about the club closure well before but I know for sure he didn't as I am hard of hearing and they know I have to be spoken to directly to make sure I've heard, and it should have been in writing, this didn't happen, he is mistaken.
It's never ending.
Thanks again

Its not too late at all, they have deducted to paid days work from your wages, that's an unauthorised deduction of wages under section 13 of the employment rights act 1996 and also amounts to a breach of contract - You would be well within your rights to take them to tribunal or issue claim at the small claims court for breach of contract to reclaim the 2 days wages.

Though its up to you if you think its worth it given its only 6hrs pay - But if they can do this once, they will likely do it again! And it seems they are hiding behind your disability (hearing) which to me would be indirect discrimination as they clearly knew you were deaf and needed to be spoken to directly but failed to do so!

[mad-minion]

Re: Rights to pay

Thanks maybe I will look into these points after all. But I am just off now for the meeting so will let you all know how it went. Thanks again.