UnfairDismissal

[anto27]

My 19 year old daughter was just dismissed today for gross misconduct. She has been working as a receptionist for a hotel since June 2014. In January 2015, she had an altercation at work with a female colleague who initiated the argument. My daughter first ignore her and then tried to leave twice to avoid her but she was blocking the door.The colleague attacked her once after backing her into the corner and put her hands round my daughter's throat. She then followed my daughter out and said she would get her sacked and moved near her again so my daughter reacted by kicking out at her to keep her away.My daughter kept her phone on so she could have a witness to what was going on. Unfortunately a guest heard my daughter shouting back at her colleague and the colleague got him to make a statement while my daughter's witness was not allowed. Both were suspended with pay.My daughter has never fought at work before although the colleague has.
The CCTV footage which my daughter requested for has been deleted even though they promised to send it.My daughter had to go to the GP for treatment as first aid was not administered to her on the premises.She took pictures of her wounds,especially round her neck and arms and the doctor prepared a medical report for her. She has also been made out to be the aggressor which was not the case.She attended a disciplinary hearing and her colleague was in the hearing for over an hour while my daughter was only given 15-20 minutes to speak and was told someone was lying. It was adjourned till today when she was told she was dismissed for kicking her colleague but they haven't looked at the circumstance that made her resort to this which was extreme provocation.The 30 year old colleague has been bullying and harassing my daughter because of her age but this has not been taken into consideration. Please advise her on her options.

[leclerc]

Re: UnfairDismissal

To be absolutely blunt with you, thank god she does not work there considering that her work colleague had their hands around her throat which is AFAIK, assault. I am surprised your daughter did not report that part of the altercation to the police.

Unfortunately, for your daughter, the guest made a statement which was taken into account as gross misconduct. Can I ask why it was gross misconduct? Was it for swearing? Was it for violence?

Are the hotel prepared to give a reference for your daughter?

My feeling here is that, as she is 19 years old, she has got out of that place rightly and that she needs to find somewhere else where she will be happy and not feel bullied. Unfortunately, as she has been in the job less than 2 years then the protection that she has in a job is not great.

I'm sorry for your daughter that she has experienced this kind of thing at such an early age.

[stevemLS]

Re: UnfairDismissal

TBH, I would think any tribunal would think an employer justified in dismissing an employee fighting at work, regardless of what the provocation might have been.

In any event, your daughter essentially has little if any remedy given her length of service.

Others might be able to think of something, but I can't, sorry.

[Nomoneynoproblem]

Re: UnfairDismissal

I am sure the company's disciplinary policy does allow for an appeal have you exhausted this avenue depending on what outcome your daughter is looking for it might be worth a try.

[sean5302]

Re: UnfairDismissal

We all tend to believe what our offspring tell us as if it is gospel.
As she hasn't worked there for 2 years, whatever she may think, she has no right of redress at a tribunal.
The facts, as you report them, suggest that she was involved in the altercation in an area accessible to guests.
Surprising that she didn't phone the Police, given that her phone was immediately available.
You tell us that a hearing was conducted and it found against her.
Whatever we think here, we will not see the facts they were presented with. Whilst admiring your support for your daughter, you don't know both sides of the story.
Her only option will be to find another job, hopefully with a reference from her last employer.

[anto27]

Re: UnfairDismissal

We all tend to believe what our offspring tell us as if it is gospel.
As she hasn't worked there for 2 years, whatever she may think, she has no right of redress at a tribunal.
The facts, as you report them, suggest that she was involved in the altercation in an area accessible to guests.
Surprising that she didn't phone the Police, given that her phone was immediately available.
You tell us that a hearing was conducted and it found against her.
Whatever we think here, we will not see the facts they were presented with. Whilst admiring your support for your daughter, you don't know both sides of the story.
Her only option will be to find another job, hopefully with a reference from her last employer.

[MENTION=49662]sean5302[/MENTION] My daughter did called the police after coming back from the GP. They saw her wounds and were shocked that she received them at her workplace. The police went there and were not told that the colleague was still at work by one of the managers who gets on with this woman and saw my daughter was injured but could not offer her first aid. This manager has previously witnessed my daughter’s colleague arguing with another colleague threatening to beat up and sent the upset victim home and let the woman continue working just like in my daughter’s case.The police have been unable to arrested her for assault yet as my daughter does not know her home address. The case is still ongoing. The Police went back to view the CCTV and now it has been mysteriously deleted even though my daughter had previously requested for a copy which was promised but never given. I was on leave that day and saw all the scratches and welts on her neck and arms with part of the skin of her wrist peeled off and my daughter has photographic evidence of injuries she sustained from her colleague who is much older but not wiser.This woman instigated the argument, a fact that was shown on the CCTV when my daughter viewed it during the investigation and was stated in the investigative report and corroborated by one of her other colleagues who witnessed the altercation . Part of the reason why the colleague has a grudge against my daughter is because she kept to herself when she saw how she was always quarrelling with other colleagues threatening to beat them up which should not be acceptable in the workplace. She had on several occasions told my daughter and other colleagues that she would 'knock her out' as .They started but on the same day and are on the same grade which is another cause for resentment. I did tell her she should have continued ignoring her but she said she had to defend herself eventually and the person who conducted the disciplinary told her the only thing she did to warrant gross misconduct was shouting back and attempting to kick her away when she came for her again.

[des8]

Re: UnfairDismissal

Your daughter might find this an interesting read: http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/crimina...ms/500074.html

[wales01man]

Re: UnfairDismissal

The Police could get her home address from the Employer im thinking something does not add up here

I have to agree with others its time for a new job whatever the outcome of possible Police actionis

[anto27]

Re: UnfairDismissal

To be absolutely blunt with you, thank god she does not work there considering that her work colleague had their hands around her throat which is AFAIK, assault. I am surprised your daughter did not report that part of the altercation to the police.

Unfortunately, for your daughter, the guest made a statement which was taken into account as gross misconduct. Can I ask why it was gross misconduct? Was it for swearing? Was it for violence?

Are the hotel prepared to give a reference for your daughter?

My feeling here is that, as she is 19 years old, she has got out of that place rightly and that she needs to find somewhere else where she will be happy and not feel bullied. Unfortunately, as she has been in the job less than 2 years then the protection that she has in a job is not great.

I'm sorry for your daughter that she has experienced this kind of thing at such an early age.

Thank you for your encouraging words. My daughter is upset because she only wanted to stay till this June so she would have one year's’ working experience in hospitality. This was her first job and she had never been in trouble at work prior to this incident. She still wants to work in the hospitality business but on a part time basis while attending university but feels she’s been set back because when she applies for a new job she won’t be able to declare the previous one which means she’s back to square one with no experience and she can’t lie on her application form. They will say they’ll give her a reference but then state in the reference letter that she was dismissed for gross misconduct so there is no point. She did report the assault to the police and the case is currently ongoing although the police seem to be dragging their feet somewhat.
Gross misconduct was mainly for shouting back at the colleague within earshot of some guests as my daughter was nearer the door and on her way out attempting to go back to the office and avoiding her. My daughter said the woman initially came to the office to start the argument .She then followed her from the office to the kitchen after she initially blocked my daughter from leaving the office by standing by the door all which was on the deleted CCTV .She then followed her from the office to the kitchen. The colleague told her at the particular time she reacted that she would get her sacked like another one of her colleagues who was recently sacked. My daughter was hearing of her colleague's dismissal for the first time and got upset and started crying. When the colleague came near her again as she kept invading her personal space she kicked in her direction to keep her away from her since she had already grabbed her throat and wounded her previously. She did say it was in self-defence and was also provoked into reacting .The manager conducting the disciplinary hearing agreed but told her that it was similar to a footballer kicking back another player during a game as both actions are considered fouls. She will appeal the decision but I'm not too sure on what grounds apart from not giving her as much time during the first hearing (15-20 minutes) while the colleague was there for over an hour. My daughter wanted to state her side of the story but as told it would be adjourned so he could read the statement so she wasn't able to say much. The one adjourned to yesterday was already a done deal as they has already come to a conclusion before she got there. My daughter’s name was taken off the rota 2 weeks ago while this woman's name is still on yet, both were suspended. The woman was called back for further investigation 2 days after my daughter's first hearing. They got a permanent replacement for my daughter post 2 weeks ago whereas they normally had agency covers .My daughter would never work there again as she was treated abysmally but would be appeal even if the dismissal is commuted to final written warning it would be a better option as she would resign immediately.

[leclerc]

Re: UnfairDismissal

So, the positive is that she will never work there again.
For what it's worth, I got sacked for gross misconduct having worked in a bank for 10 years and I had at least 10 years on your daughter. I work in a completely different work place but there are transferrable skills in each work.
She's got youth on her side. Get her to go around the agencies with her CV and get her to look at the various sites around the www for jobs. Is the police matter completed with? That, in my opinion, is the ONLY issue that will hold her back.

To be honest with you, get her to do whatever job she can get even if it is short term because working in itself is a good start.
You need to keep her being positive because whilst the way she went sounds horrific, that is not the normal way things are done and the person who went after her is not the normal kind of person you find in places of work.

Good luck to her.

[anto27]

Re: UnfairDismissal

The Police could get her home address from the Employer im thinking something does not add up here

I have to agree with others its time for a new job whatever the outcome of possible Police action is

Thank you for your advice. It does look very suspicious but I know there is such a thing as KARMA and it is no respecter of persons. I believe that every disappointment is a blessing in disguise. It just unfortunate that my daughter was sacked from her very first job as she is very upset and went through a lot last year and was just building back her self confidence.
We will find a way to get her colleague's address and yes, she no longer wants to work there but is worried about getting a reference since it was her first job and will not be able to cite it in an application form. As from September she will be working part time but wanted to still work in the hospitality business. She will still appeal and we will see what happens as all she really wants is a reference now.

[stevemLS]

Re: UnfairDismissal

And she is going to university so this episode need not blight the rest of her career - she can just "forget" to mention it when she is looking for a job post-university (which is not something those who need immediately to look for a job can do).

[anto27]

Re: UnfairDismissal

Your daughter might find this an interesting read: http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/crimina...ms/500074.html

Thank you. Your suggestion is much appreciated. She is looking it up and said she finding it informative .

[anto27]

Re: UnfairDismissal

I am sure the company's disciplinary policy does allow for an appeal have you exhausted this avenue depending on what outcome your daughter is looking for it might be worth a try.

She is going to appeal for what it is worth.The main thing she wants is a reference which she will not get for being dismissed for gross misconduct. She started applying for jobs today but knows she can't use her previous place of work to prove that she has working experience. After September she will only be working part time as she will be focusing more on higher education .

[leclerc]

Re: UnfairDismissal

She is going to appeal for what it is worth.The main thing she wants is a reference which she will not get for being dismissed for gross misconduct. She started applying for jobs today but knows she can't use her previous place of work to prove that she has working experience. After September she will only be working part time as she will be focusing more on higher education .

Who said she would not get a reference? Many people who are sacked for GM DO get a reference which states that they were sacked for GM. If appealing is just about the reference then I'm not sure I'd bother and move on to the next job.....