Unfair dismisal ?

[qteas]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

I've tried to settle this but they have refused. I honestly feel they are wrong as I wouldn't put myself or my family through this stress as a matter of principle I really just want to move on with my life. But I don't seem to have a choice I've been living in poverty since this happened to me and if I'm being prevented from working I have no prospect of rebuilding my life. The problem is the local council have a bottomless pit of money and I have nothing now as I have used everything I had to fight the initial false allegations. So unless the council offer me a package I need to fight this as best I can or I'm destined for a life of poverty.

[qteas]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

Just a quick question the respondents solicitor have threatened me a few time but said it was without prejudice. In their emails it also stated that I shouldn't inform the tribunal service. But I did inform them and asked for advice ie are they allowed to threaten me. Now the respondents solicitor says that due to my deliberate act he will use this against me in the tribunal.

Does he have a point here or is this just games ???????

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

What exactly had they threatened you with?

If it was written without prejudice, its simply means a tribunal can not use what is said against a party when deciding the outcome of any claim, unless of course the content was in breach of the malicious communications act or amounted to being unlawful in one form or another.

[qteas]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

They said they were going to sue me for costs and reinstate a debt they say i owe from 4 years ago. The debt accrued as my employer paid university fees upfront with the agreement i would repay this debt whilst working from them out of my wages on a monthly basis from my wages but then once i got through the course they sacked me so i wasnt employed by them anymore

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

Lol sue for costs. Never heard of anyone being sued for cost. Its very rare for an ET to order the claimant to pay the employers costs, even if the claimant lost their claim. And no county court will order you to do so if the ET didn't.

Also they terminated your employment so unless they had a sepearate loan agreement about the repayment of the fees they paid, or a clause in your employment contract reference training costs repayments etc. They will have a difficult task of claiming those fees back.

[qteas]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

Thats good to know so i think i was quite within my right to ask the tribunal service if they were right to threaten me with this stuff and im hoping putting without prejudice at the end of their email is meaningless. The thing is i thought the tribunal service was impartial and would either tell me if they were in their right to do that or not and if they are well their is nothing i can do about it but if their wrong it just doesn't look good to say the least. So i cant understand how that can be used against me im not a legal expert nor do i have legal representation

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

It can't be used against you at all, the solicitors threats were merely nothing but huffing and puffing and same old same old. Nothing to worry about to be honest.

[qteas]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

That's good news as I've just submitted a load of transcripts of audio recording of me doing assaulted and my list of witnesses I plan to hand over a CD of the recordings to the judge. I have four witnesses who can give evidence that I had injuries and was being assaulted. Although the issue is about me not reporting rather than the assaults. So I have a professional witness who is employed by the Scottish Government to give advice to local authorities about domestic abuse of men and the difficulty men have in reporting in addition to the lack of support and the bias men face by agencies. You just have to look at the information available on Dv it's all geared towards female victims.

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

That's good news as I've just submitted a load of transcripts of audio recording of me doing assaulted and my list of witnesses I plan to hand over a CD of the recordings to the judge. I have four witnesses who can give evidence that I had injuries and was being assaulted. Although the issue is about me not reporting rather than the assaults. So I have a professional witness who is employed by the Scottish Government to give advice to local authorities about domestic abuse of men and the difficulty men have in reporting in addition to the lack of support and the bias men face by agencies. You just have to look at the information available on Dv it's all geared towards female victims.

I agree with you, there has be an issue of a lack of equality in regards to domestic abuse. It is largerly seen as an issue where women are the victims, but they are just as many men that are victims too. We all know women are good at psychological mind games, which itself in extreme cases is mental abuse and is classed as a form of domestic abuse, just like being possessive, controlling and violent (both physically and verbally) is. And just as many women are possessive and controlling as men, and just as it is known for women hit their partners in arguments and in some cases, stabbed or killed them. But there is a stigma around men who report they are victims, its seen as weakness. Everything is geared towards protecting women, and very little their to support or protect male victims of domestic abuse. Though it has been highlighted and gained media attention over the last 2 years, though obviously more needs to be done, to promote and provide support to male victims!

[qteas]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

My case starts on Wednesday so I'm a bit stressed about the whole thing but I will do my best

[qteas]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

Thats me home after the tribunal. It seemed to go really well but the judge said she would send her decision out to everyone in writing within ten days. The only thing is they looked at my schedule of loss buy the judge never said anything about a remedies hearing. But I'm thinking I should have stated I wanted reinstatement but I was so stressed I just forgot. Can I now right to the judge via the employment tribunal to ask her to consider reinstatement as an one of the options or have I now missed my chance?

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

Thats me home after the tribunal. It seemed to go really well but the judge said she would send her decision out to everyone in writing within ten days. The only thing is they looked at my schedule of loss buy the judge never said anything about a remedies hearing. But I'm thinking I should have stated I wanted reinstatement but I was so stressed I just forgot. Can I now right to the judge via the employment tribunal to ask her to consider reinstatement as an one of the options or have I now missed my chance?

Its always worth trying, because if you don't then she can not consider it, where if you do, then she can at least put some consideration in to it. And reinstatement is not a big ask, but perfectly reasonable to ask for. Though most prefer to not go back to work for employers they have taken ET. So it won't do you any harm by writing and asking she includes it in her considerations.

Glad things seemed to go well for you, could you elaborate a bit more on that for us?

[qteas]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

At the hearing i had three witnesses my son, brother and partner in addition to a professional witness from AMIS who has been immense in regards his support of me. He is also a qualified Social Worker which gives him real insight into the bias that exists with services and in particular local authorities in Scotland. He is employed by the Scottish government to help raise awareness of issues relating to domestic abuse of men with all local authorities in Scotland. However he is not a radical mens right campaigner he is very thoughtful in what he says and has had involvement in a number of national studies on this subject.

The respondent had one witness who was obviously evasive to my questions to point that he was discredited by his own actions. I was able to point to flaws in the investigation process particularly the fact that the person heading the investigation changed resulting in information being lost or evidence presented not being taken up and generally dismissed with the result the second person heading the investigation was not fully aware of the information available. Near the end of the meeting i was outside the tribunal talking to my partner when the officer for the respondent approached me and asked who my partner was "who are you'' he said to her so intervened and said this is my partner and he laughed and said to her well 'im the baddy im the one who sacked him'. Of course my partner burst into tears and i was so angry with him i went back into the tribunal and told them in my summon up what he had did. I said i was disgusted by his behaviour and he lacked integrity and his completely lack of compassion for anyone. I went on to say they assumed i was guilty and irrespective of what they are now saying ie they were trying to not dismiss they were in fact looking to dismiss right from the start and just went through the motions of n investigation which was obvious. I was pretty angry at this stage but did try to hold it together so I didnt get carried away. Is it normal for the judge to send out a written decisions rather than given a verbal decision on the day or is that a bad sign ?

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

Perfectly normal for a judge to take time to consider their decision, it allows them to reexamine what was said in the hearing, the evidence and everything. Especially in complex and delicate cases. Though they tend to stick to the same opinion they may have express at the hearing. And sounds like you walked all over them in the hearing, but still, don't get your hopes too high, just in case. But it does look good from what you have said, in my opinion!

What did the Judge say regarding the respondents actions outside of the Room?

By the way, you may want to edit out your AMIS friends name for privacy and confidentiality reasons.

[qteas]

Re: Unfair dismisal ?

To be honest i cant remember what the Judge said but she looked quite shocked at what i told the tribunal but i dont suppose that it would really carry any weight in her decision.

She did ask me what i thought should have happened to what i replied that i honestly think my manager should possibly spoke to me about it just to ensure i was aware of what actions i should have taken and what I should do if the same set of circumstances presented again in the future. So generally I thought a verbal warning at most would have been sufficient considering all the circumstances.

So I really dont know she never indicated her preferred outcome although she did mention a written warning as a possible response to not reporting but i really don't know.