Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

[HubbaBubba]

Hi all,


I'm hoping someone here may be able to quickly help clear up an issue reagrding what is classed as "working hours". My current situation is as follows:


I have been employed at my current place of work for over four years. We very recently took on a contract with a new client which now requires me to work on site at the clients premises for the next 3 - 4 months.


During the past four years of employment, I have been commuting to a single place of work, which takes me approximately one hour each way. However, I am now being asked to travel to the client's offices, which is twice the distace / amount of time (two hours each way).


The requirements of the new contract require me to work a full day, excluding the additional travel time that is now required to get to the office. This is now an issue for me, since I am now having to wake up much earlier and I also arrive home much later.


The dispute I have with my employer is that, since I am now required to drive a lot further, the additional time required is now part of my job (and not considered part of my usual daily commute) and therefore should be classed as working hours. As such, I am asking to be paid the addditional portion of time outside of my regular daily commute, since I would not be driving these kinds of distances otherwise.


My employer has stated that I am able to claim back the additional mileage outside of what my usual commute would be, but unfortunately I cannot claim overtime for the extra two hours which I will now lose when travelling to / from the new place of work.


Is anyone able to tell me whether this additional travel time is classed as working hours?


Many thanks for any help - it's much appreciated.




Regards,
Sam.

[teaboy2]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

Hi all,


I'm hoping someone here may be able to quickly help clear up an issue reagrding what is classed as "working hours". My current situation is as follows:


I have been employed at my current place of work for over four years. We very recently took on a contract with a new client which now requires me to work on site at the clients premises for the next 3 - 4 months.


During the past four years of employment, I have been commuting to a single place of work, which takes me approximately one hour each way. However, I am now being asked to travel to the client's offices, which is twice the distace / amount of time (two hours each way).


The requirements of the new contract require me to work a full day, excluding the additional travel time that is now required to get to the office. This is now an issue for me, since I am now having to wake up much earlier and I also arrive home much later.


The dispute I have with my employer is that, since I am now required to drive a lot further, the additional time required is now part of my job (and not considered part of my usual daily commute) and therefore should be classed as working hours. As such, I am asking to be paid the addditional portion of time outside of my regular daily commute, since I would not be driving these kinds of distances otherwise.


My employer has stated that I am able to claim back the additional mileage outside of what my usual commute would be, but unfortunately I cannot claim overtime for the extra two hours which I will now lose when travelling to / from the new place of work.


Is anyone able to tell me whether this additional travel time is classed as working hours?


Many thanks for any help - it's much appreciated.




Regards,
Sam.

Yes your entitled to travel expenses - But not for extra time spent traveling! Only time your entitled to be paid for time spend traveling is if said traveling forms part of your normal duties I.e. traveling salesman!

However your employer can not force you to work anywhere other than your usually place of work, unless their is a clause in your employment contract, stating something along the lines that you may be required to work at other locations to that of your usual place of work!

[HubbaBubba]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

Hi teaboy2,

Many thanks for the quick reply! Are you able to refer to a clause in the government enforced employment rights which explains this a bit further?

If you read page five of the following PDF, it states that time spent travelling as part of my job is classed as working hours: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ent-rights.pdf

My argument is that this new commute is indeed part of the job since I would not normally be travelling these sorts of distances (esp. in my own car which is further losing value due to the extra mileage).

Thanks for your help.

[teaboy2]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

Hi teaboy2,

Many thanks for the quick reply! Are you able to refer to a clause in the government enforced employment rights which explains this a bit further?

If you read page five of the following PDF, it states that time spent travelling as part of my job is classed as working hours: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ent-rights.pdf

My argument is that this new commute is indeed part of the job since I would not normally be travelling these sorts of distances (esp. in my own car which is further losing value due to the extra mileage).

Thanks for your help.

But traveling is not part of your Job is it?

You do not do any traveling whilst at work during your contracted working hours, so its not part of your Job. Your usually working from one location, not on the road doing work, where you have to travel from place to place during your standard working hours. Traveling from home to work is classed as private time and falls outside of your contracted hours.

[HubbaBubba]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

That's correct - travelling is not part of my job description.

However, I am now required to travel to a new location which is unreasonably further outside of my usual commute. I see the additional time as being part of the job since I wouldn't be covering these sorts of distances in any normal situation and it is only due to the new contract which is requiring me to travel further.

Again, are you able to point me to a clause in any Employment Rights material which further explains where you are coming from?

Thanks teaboy2 - really appreciate your help in this matter.

[teaboy2]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

That's correct - travelling is not part of my job description.

However, I am now required to travel to a new location which is unreasonably further outside of my usual commute. I see the additional time as being part of the job since I wouldn't be covering these sorts of distances in any normal situation and it is only due to the new contract which is requiring me to travel further.

Again, are you able to point me to a clause in any Employment Rights material which further explains where you are coming from?

Thanks teaboy2 - really appreciate your help in this matter.

There is not such legislation as you have no right to be paid for additional traveling time. Employment rights etc etc, only state what rights you are entitled too, not the ones your not entitled to such as pay for additional travel time to or from work. Your contract of employment probably requires you from time to time to have to work at alternative locations other than your usually place of work, therefore you are contracted and have a legal obligation to travel elsewhere upon the employers request subject to the employer paying your additional traveling expenses.

May i suggest that given it is a two hour drive there and back, that you ask your employer to put you up in B&B pay for by them and pay you subsistence allowance to cover food!

On a side note however, there is the minimum break period between shifts under the working time regulations, which starts from when you get home from work and leave home next morning. So what hours will you be working at the new place of work?

[HubbaBubba]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

But traveling is not part of your Job is it?

You do not do any traveling whilst at work during your contracted working hours, so its not part of your Job. Your usually working from one location, not on the road doing work, where you have to travel from place to place during your standard working hours. Traveling from home to work is classed as private time, not travel time.

It wasn't part of my job, until now. I am now required to travel further, as part of the job requires I work on site.

Are you able to point me in the right direction as to where I can find the definition of "private time" and "travel time"?

Thanks for your help.

[HubbaBubba]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

Weird - I didn't see your other reply until just now...

Yeah, I suppose that is an option. But I have other commitments outside of work which makes that not really feasible...

My working hours are a full day, 9 - 5:30, with an hour break for lunch.

[teaboy2]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

Weird - I didn't see your other reply until just now...

Yeah, I suppose that is an option. But I have other commitments outside of work which makes that not really feasible...

My working hours are a full day, 9 - 5:30, with an hour break for lunch.

ok so in total, you current spend 11:30 hrs from leaving home to getting back home at work or traveling to or from work. So you currently have rest period from 6:30pm till 8am which is total of 13.5 hrs - minimum is 11 hours uninterrupted rest period. I've also just rechecked the regulations for daily rest periods and its from leaving work til starting work and not from when you get home till when you leave for work for next shift. So there goes that idea.

I do have another thing in mind, but i need to see specifically what your contract says about being expected to work away from your usual place of work. So if you could find out what your contract says bout that and let me know. I can then see if its worth pursuing. Though its along the lines of is it a reasonable request that your employer has made to you when asking you to work away for such a long period of time. But it all falls down to what is in your contract!

[HubbaBubba]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

Ah that's a shame! Thank you for looking into that - that's really kind of you.

I'll dig out my contract now and send you the specifics via PM regarding travel to/from work. Thanks again for your time.

[teaboy2]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

No Problem. It probably be tomorrow now though before i get back to you, unless your quick.

[HubbaBubba]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

Just sent it to you!

[teaboy2]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

Send you reply.

Just for transparency and benefit of others. The contract only requires HubbaBubba to be expected to work elsewhere within reasonableness - Basically

So advice is its not reasonable to request you to travel 4 hours a day there and back for 3-4 months due to the impact on your family and private life, especially given that it would likely mean not seeing your kids in the morning or on a night!

[HubbaBubba]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

Thanks - I've just read it!

You have no idea how good it is to finally talk to someone who agrees with me...

I'll confront my boss about it over the next day or two. Really appreciate your opinion and all your time helping me with this. I'll let you know how I get on!

[teaboy2]

Re: Working Hours VS Travel Time - Employer Dispute

No problem at all.

Don't confront him in confrontational style, just be friendly and informal about it but get your points across. I'd suggest you make a list of all the things in your family and private life (including interests outside of work) that you'd miss out on or have to give up as if you have to travel 4 hours to and from work each day. Point out it amounts to nearly half of a full days shift!