Help !! 3 months after signing compromise they now want evidence i have complied !!!!

[bluebottle]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

This case is always good to refer to when establishing an employers vicarious liability. However, it should be remembered that it only took place due to the fact that the harassment that Majrowski was was subjected to was because he was gay and current legislation at the time did not offer adequate protection to employees based on this. Now that we have the Equalities Act 2010 this case would almost certainly have been an employment law matter.

Absolutely, Harmonica. The Michelak case arose from Dr Michelak going on maternity leave, being female and Polish. After taking into account all factors involved, including the unrelenting bullying to which Dr Michelak was subjected and resulted in her being declared unfit to work ever again due to psychological damage attributed to the bullying, the ET that heard the case made ET history by awarding £4.1m in damages and costs against the NHS Trust that employed Dr Michelak. Two managers who were prominent in the bullying, were ordered to pay £20k and £30k of the £4.1m, respectively, out of their own pockets for their part in it. When the Michelak case was heard, the Equality Act 2010 was already in force. However, it should serve as a salutary and sobering lesson to employers as to what could befall them if they think bullying and harassment of employees is acceptable and they believe they will not be held to account for it. Fate has some strange ways of exacting retribution, but you can guarantee it will bite you hard on the bum whatever.

[BOBBYMOOREISGOD]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Hi Teaboy,

Great advice you have given me, really appreciated.

The audit has taken place over a 2 month window, it has been compiled by one individual over the phone. They have a dozen or so cases with the phone call being made to the client from a range of next day to 3 and 4 weeks later and this is my huge problem, how do I know the calls even existed, and how many questions were fire at the client. Surely it is my word against the client ??

I have been their top performing account manager for 11 years year in year out, never had a day off sick, crystal clean record and never had one complaint from any client.

They have nothing concrete or factual on me, just the phone calls and comments back to them from their pre loaded questions. (if they ever took place !!!)

[Harmonica]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Regarding the employers phone calls to clients as part of the so called audit - Your entitled to copies of all evidence, including phone call recordings prior to any disciplinary hearing. If no recordings exist or they refuse to present them to you in advance of the hearing, and instead try to rely on transcripts of the calls (which are likely to not be signed by the client to confirm accuracy). Then they'll struggle to have enough evidence to take action against you.

Audits should not be carried out over the phone, but in writing. They should have sent written questionnaires with signature box to the all clients you have met with in the last 6-12months.

I definitely agree that if an audit has taken place then there should be a clear paper trail and that you should not be expected to simply believe your employer that it happened. A proper audit would need to have been done in writing with the signature of the clients on the paperwork.

[teaboy2]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

BobbyMoorIsGod - Like i said earlier and like harmonica says above, they would need paper trail, so if they are unable to provide signed (by client) copies of the phone conversation, they are basically going to be hanging themselves whilst shooting both their feet off with the shotgun! As they can not rely on what they alleged a client said, without substantiating what they alleged a client said - hence the need for paper trail and clients signature on copies of conversations etc.

[BOBBYMOOREISGOD]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Hello everybody, a further update for you !!!!

Just got back from my solicitors office this morning who has been reviewing all of the evidence the company has posted me and he has blown holes across the whole thing, he says it is a classic witch hunt. I have also requested a lot more information from the company in the way of evidence to back up their accusations. ie: they said I have claimed false mileage and the client has been upset but have not supported this with any instances.

The main points are that they have broken there own company handbook disciplinary procedures as it clearly states that no disciplinary can take place until a full investigation has taken place and all information and informal discussions has been held with the employee by their supervisor. If discussions and evidence to support the investigation from the employee are insufficient then disciplinary actions will proceed.

I was called in and just sent home on full pay suspended without any prior knowledge of any investigation having taken place and never had any discussion at all with anybody.

Also the audit has been gathered by one individual over the phone and no countersigned time and date recorded statements from the client have been produced. No evidence has been provided to show calls actually took place. The audit email also stated that all comments gathered from clients good or bad will be reviewed on a monthly basis by the person carrying out the audit with the individual it concerns. Again nobody said a word to me about this.

The solicitor has complied me a wonderful response letter and request for lots more information and I feel a whole lot better now as he has shown me many points within their evidence, the audit and how I was suspended where they have broken their own procedures and basically bullied me, made lots of assumptions and based their so called evidence on a one to one phone call that has not been recorded or countersigned by the client.

I will let you know what happens and would appreciate any advice !!!!!!!!!!

[teaboy2]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

I did say they needed phone recording or written transcripts and for them to be signed by the client, along with a paper trail for the audit. Obviously didn't know about their internal disciplinary process (which is breach of contract and would give you in this case strong grounds to sue for constructive dismissal), but they were still in breach of ACAS code of practice anyway.

I would be interested in seeing the solicitors letter minus personal details etc. So if you get chance please post a copy up or send it to my by Private message if you prefer not to post it up here.

[BOBBYMOOREISGOD]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Hi teaboy,

You are quite correct the solicitor was laughing at how inept they had been, they have broke several of their own procedures as detailed in their handbook and another massive no no for them was they never at any stage consulted me to address any problems. They even stated in the audit email that went out they would do this on a monthly basis !!!

He said I need to get out get a new job then do them for constructive dismissal, he has also put in the letter about me as part of the company investigation interviewing the clients as witnesses to confirm they actually said what they said and I would be allowed to interview them for evidence from my side.

An investigation cannot take place about one individual without even consulting the individual to seek information / evidence or their side of events.

Also a tribunal will cost the company a fortune and if the company denies me any information as evidence or denies me the right to quiz clients as witnesses all that will go against them, because at a tribunal I am legally allowed to do this anyway.

We are now sat waiting for the companies responses. The solicitor is the best £200 I have ever spent, he picked holes that unless you are an employment solicitor a normal bloke in the street like me would have missed.

Are you a solicitor / employment specialist Teaboy ????

My solicitor told me that when they advised all staff of the audit they legally should have informed everybody that this audit would form part of the companies disciplinary process. The audit was a new process and did not form part of my contract terms and conditions. They never did, so again this is a massive black mark against them.

[Harmonica]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Be very careful if you're considering resigning and claiming constructive dismissal. It is a drastic step and claimants only have a 3% success rate. The question still remains, why have they targeted you like this? What assurances do you have that if you were to return to such a job that they wouldn't simply try it again, only next time they'd be more careful?

[BOBBYMOOREISGOD]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Harmonica,

It gets even better now !!

My employer has now emailed me to inform me I do not have any contract !!! and they now want my planned meeting this week to be an investigation meeting and not the disciplinary hearing as they have previously badged it !!! so basically I have caught them out for not following their own disciplinary rules and they have re badged the meeting.

Following our investigation chat they have stated they will then decide if any disciplinary action will take place. !!! I am confused as hell now, they have not offered any evidence from all my request neither, they also do not have a disciplinary procedures procedure, everything is In the staff handbook. They have confirmed that there are no notes or client signatures from the audit it was over the phone and typed up immediately via one individual !!!!

Are they now back tracking or just taking the p*ss out of me even more now !!!

[bluebottle]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

By the sound of it, they are digging a bloody big hole for themselves and it's getting deeper by the hour. There is a saying - When you're in a hole, stop digging. They need to stop digging - now.

[teaboy2]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Harmonica,

It gets even better now !!

My employer has now emailed me to inform me I do not have any contract !!! and they now want my planned meeting this week to be an investigation meeting and not the disciplinary hearing as they have previously badged it !!! so basically I have caught them out for not following their own disciplinary rules and they have re badged the meeting.

Following our investigation chat they have stated they will then decide if any disciplinary action will take place. !!! I am confused as hell now, they have not offered any evidence from all my request neither, they also do not have a disciplinary procedures procedure, everything is In the staff handbook. They have confirmed that there are no notes or client signatures from the audit it was over the phone and typed up immediately via one individual !!!!

Are they now back tracking or just taking the p*ss out of me even more now !!!

PMSL so you working for them without an employment contract - despite the fact the law is clear that a contract of employment exist from the moment a verbal offer of employment is accepted!! And now they squirming about on their seats so much they are renaming a disciplinary meeting as an investigatory meeting, which am sure you said they already held such investigatory meeting with you (though i may be confused with another thread on that point)!!

And to top it all off they still seem to want to continue this, despite them having no paper trail or the phone calls signed by the clients or transcripts of such calls signed by the clients!

They gone from shooting themselves sin the foot with a shot gun to using a bloody minigun lol.

Ohh and no am not a qualified employment solicitor or specialist just someone who's well versed in employment law as a result of necessity as stated in my signature below mate.

And as Harmonica said, last thing you want to do is resign as even though i believe you have them for serious breach of contract and could have a successful claim for constructive dismissal, there is always the chance a tribunal will find that the breach could have been remedied. So resigning is a last straw action with you should only take once things become irreconcilable i.e. the point where the breach is so serious their is clearly no way it can be remedied, which in my view your on the red line, right now, where that is about to become the case.

[BOBBYMOOREISGOD]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Hi teaboy,

Brewery and p*ss up springs to mind, solicitor says they are fools and now back tracking.

So what do I do now got the meeting and say what ??

[teaboy2]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Hi teaboy,

Brewery and p*ss up springs to mind, solicitor says they are fools and now back tracking.

So what do I do now got the meeting and say what ??

If it was me i would point out to them that as they previously invited you to attend a disciplinary meeting (and if you did have a investigatory meeting already, point that out to them too), then you will be treating the meeting as a disciplinary meeting and that you fully expect them to provide all evidence to you, otherwise you will not be commenting on any questions asked in the meeting! and make it clear they are now simply just trying to back track and cover their backsides, after receiving your solicitors letter warning them of their wrong-doings!!

Though you may want to ask your solicitor his opinion before you do anything.

Either way, no matter what they call the meeting they still up shits creek without a paddle for not following their own procedures and suspending you like they did i.e. breach of contract! So regardless of the outcome now, any punishment would be unfair. Their only option to remedy in my view is to drop the whole thing and apologies to you in writing, not that you would want to accept that!

[bluebottle]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

If it was me i would point out to them that as they previously invited you to attend a disciplinary meeting (and if you did have a investigatory meeting already, point that out to them too), then you will be treating the meeting as a disciplinary meeting and that you fully expect them to provide all evidence to you, otherwise you will not be commenting on any questions asked in the meeting! and make it clear they are now simply just trying to back track and cover their backsides, after receiving your solicitors letter warning them of their wrong-doings!!

Though you may want to ask your solicitor his opinion before you do anything.

Either way, no matter what they call the meeting they still up shits creek without a paddle for not following their own procedures and suspending you like they did i.e. breach of contract! So regardless of the outcome now, any punishment would be unfair. Their only option to remedy in my view is to drop the whole thing and apologies to you in writing, not that you would want to accept that!

They're up Crap Creek without a paddle alright, TB. Trouble is, they haven't got a bucket to bale them out as the boat has sprung a leak and is rapidly sinking into a quagmire of their own making.

[Harmonica]

Re: Please help - my company is setting me up for the sack on trumped up accusations

Just so I'm not getting the wrong end of the stick, you've worked for these people for eleven years, yet they're claiming that you do not have an employment contract with them? Even if you don't have a physical written contract, you've agreed to work for them and in turn they've agreed to pay you wages, so a contract exists.

After two months they should have given you something in writing. Do you have anything in writing outlining your employment terms? If you don't, it doesn't mean you have no contract. It would just be useful to have.