Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

[MissFM]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

To the OP:

Thai,

I think JB must have misunderstood your situation - very few would suspect themselves of being "legally drunk" at that time of the morning.

But I guess he's correct in that, legally, your employer can dismiss you, whether you knew you were over the limit or not.

FWIW, I'm so sorry.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

I think it's a bit of a there-but-for-the-Grace-of-God situation, BB, for those of us who enjoy a drink or three of an evening. Very few realise how long it takes to leave the system

It varies from individual to individual, MissFM, and how efficient your liver happens to be. Some people metabolise alcohol fairly rapidly, whilst others take longer.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

Who the hell do you think you are. If you have nothing positive to say then don't post anything.

Just as a matter of interest, Thai, were you offered a blood test at the police station? This should have been done as a part of the processing whilst you were in the Custody Suite.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

Who the hell do you think you are. If you have nothing positive to say then don't post anything.

Why are you having a pop at me?
Well I thought that telling you not to drink and drive was being positive.
What's up? Can't take the criticism?
You knew you had been drinking, and you decided to take a chance and drive, and you now have to face the music.
Around 280 people die a year in crashes in which someone was over the legal drink drive limit.
Tell the wives, kids, mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters of these poor sods that I wasn't being positive, and that it's OK because you was perfectly safe to drive.
And not everyone dies.
Over a thousand people are seriously injured every year, and not all of them the drivers.
Surely common sense should have told you, that if you was over the drink drive limit at the Police Station.
Then taking a chance on going into work, was to say, at the very least, foolhardy.
You wouldn't stand a chance in a Tribunal, because the employer was absolutely within his rights.
The employer would rightly claim, that it was your responsibility, to ensure you were able to carry out your duties in the workplace safely.

Section 7 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 states.......
General duties of employees at work.
It shall be the duty of every employee while at work—
(a)to take reasonable care for the health and safety of himself and of other persons who may be affected by his acts or omissions at work; and
(b)as regards any duty or requirement imposed on his employer or any other person by or under any of the relevant statutory provisions, to co-operate with him so far as is necessary to enable that duty or requirement to be performed or complied with.

As you failed to do this, he had no other choice but to discipline you.
You could try going through the appeal procedure to try to get reinstated into your job, but I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

To the OP:

Thai,

I think JB must have misunderstood your situation - very few would suspect themselves of being "legally drunk" at that time of the morning.

But I guess he's correct in that, legally, your employer can dismiss you, whether you knew you were over the limit or not.

FWIW, I'm so sorry.

Hi Miss FM,
No I understood his situation perfectly.
He must have know how much he had been drinking the night before.
He must have known roughly at what time he had his last drink.
It was he who decided, no-one else, to take a chance and drive to work.
He got stopped, was found to be over the limit and then took another chance by going into work.
He got dismissed by his employer, who had no other choice.
So what does he want me to say?
He did the crime now he must do the time.
He really should thank his lucky stars that he never had a fatality accident while driving.
Otherwise he could now be facing a manslaughter charge.
This is the reality of drink driving.
Sometimes we have to hold our hands up and admit our mistakes.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

Just to give you some idea of drink drive accidents and casualties.
Fatalities are going down, thanks mainly to the safety devices fitted in the modern car, and awareness of the dangers of drink driving.
Click on this link and look at other statistics.
You will be surprised at what you see.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...ng-and-driving

	Accidents					Casualties
Year	Fatal	Serious	Slight	Total		Killed	Serious	Slight	Total
1979	1,380	5,630	12,460	19,470		1,640	8,300	21,490	31,430
1980	1,280	5,430	11,860	18,570		1,450	7,970	20,420	29,830
1981	1,200	4,940	10,900	17,040		1,420	7,370	19,160	27,950
1982	1,300	5,420	12,070	18,800		1,550	8,010	20,660	30,220
1983	950	4,750	11,430	17,130		1,110	6,800	18,610	26,520
1984	1,000	4,790	11,540	17,320		1,170	6,820	19,410	27,390
1985	900	4,900	11,460	17,260		1,040	6,810	19,380	27,220
1986	850	4,590	11,510	16,940		990	6,440	19,220	26,650
1987	780	4,220	10,560	15,560		900	5,900	17,670	24,470
1988	680	3,660	10,190	14,520		790	5,100	16,860	22,740
1989	700	3,390	10,300	14,390		810	4,790	16,620	22,220
1990	650	2,910	9,650	13,210		760	4,090	15,550	20,400
1991	570	2,590	8,530	11,690		660	3,610	13,610	17,880
1992	540	2,360	7,890	10,790		660	3,280	12,770	16,710
1993	460	1,870	7,160	9,480		540	2,660	11,780	14,980
1994	470	2,090	7,330	9,900		540	2,840	11,780	15,160
1995	460	2,140	7,590	10,180		540	3,000	12,450	16,000
1996	480	2,150	8,240	10,870		580	3,010	13,450	17,040
1997	470	2,140	8,100	10,710		550	2,940	13,310	16,800
1998	410	1,860	7,840	10,100		460	2,520	12,610	15,580
1999	400	1,850	8,800	11,050		460	2,470	13,980	16,910
2000	450	1,950	9,410	11,800		530	2,540	14,990	18,060
2001	470	2,020	9,780	12,270		530	2,700	15,550	18,780
2002	480	2,050	10,620	13,150		550	2,790	16,760	20,100
2003	500	1,970	9,930	12,400		580	2,590	15,820	18,990
2004	520	1,790	8,900	11,210		580	2,340	14,060	16,980
2005	470	1,550	8,060	10,080		550	2,090	12,760	15,400
2006	490	1,480	7,430	9,400		560	1,970	11,850	14,370
2007	370	1,400	7,520	9,290		410	1,760	11,850	14,020
2008	350	1,280	6,980	8,620		400	1,620	10,970	12,990
2009	340	1,180	6,530	8,050		380	1,500	10,150	12,030
2010	220	990	5,420	6,620		240	1,240	8,210	9,690
2011	220	1,040	5,430	6,690		240	1,270	8,420	9,930
2012	210	960	5,460	6,630		230	1,200	8,510	9,930

[bluebottle]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

Could the OP confirm if he was offered a blood test at the police station or whether blood samples were taken, please?

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

Could the OP confirm if he was offered a blood test at the police station or whether blood samples were taken, please?

What difference would this make to any conviction BB?
I always understood, that the driver is given the option to either take a breath test or give a blood sample, and is a routine part of police procedure when the driver arrives at the Police station.
Your advice on this please.

[ironman]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

I am sorry people but i am putting up this link from an Australian anti Drink drive commercial shown on Prime Time TV

IT CUT DRINK DRIVING ACCIDENTS BY A THIRD

Be warned as to the content

I have no time for people who seem to think it is acceptable to drink and drive, no matter what the amount. People need to consider the human cost of your actions

Moderators choice as to leave it up but it is shown on Australian TV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2mf8DtWWd8

[des8]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

Very graphic.

The problem of course, is that the drinker often is not aware he is "over the Limit"
I always thought that I took every care not to drive in that condition.
About 30 years ago, after dinner I spent an evening in the pub. I had limited myself to a pint and half, until 2am (yeah a lock in) when I had another half)
On the way home I was stopped, blew positive and opted for blood test.
Came back marginally over limit, and eventually 4 months later I lost my licence.
The point is I was always careful, and my friends couldn't believe I was over the limit. One can drink and not realise one is over.
Result, I never drink any alcohol if I'm driving, nor now do many of my friends.
It is the only way to ensure you remain on the right side of sober.

And I do endorse previous posters condemnation of drink driving.

And this from a driver who was brought up to believe you were OK if you could walk a white line and recite funny quips about the Leith police. The introduction of the breathalyzer was a shock.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

Very graphic.

The problem of course, is that the drinker often is not aware he is "over the Limit"
I always thought that I took every care not to drive in that condition.
About 30 years ago, after dinner I spent an evening in the pub. I had limited myself to a pint and half, until 2am (yeah a lock in) when I had another half)
On the way home I was stopped, blew positive and opted for blood test.
Came back marginally over limit, and eventually 4 months later I lost my licence.
The point is I was always careful, and my friends couldn't believe I was over the limit. One can drink and not realise one is over.
Result, I never drink any alcohol if I'm driving, nor now do many of my friends.
It is the only way to ensure you remain on the right side of sober.

And I do endorse previous posters condemnation of drink driving.

And this from a driver who was brought up to believe you were OK if you could walk a white line and recite funny quips about the Leith police. The introduction of the breathalyzer was a shock.

This is the example I was trying to make to Thai....
Ironman accepted he did wrong, even if it was unintentional.
He didn't look for a 'get out of jail free card' but accepted his punishment, learned a lesson by it and did the right thing.
Thai should follow Ironman's example and do the same.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

What difference would this make to any conviction BB?
I always understood, that the driver is given the option to either take a breath test or give a blood sample, and is a routine part of police procedure when the driver arrives at the Police station.
Your advice on this please.

The roadside test only tells police officers someone has been drinking a beverage containing alcohol. It works by analysing exhaled breath for a particular chemical that occurs naturally in alcoholic drinks. The machine at the police station works in very much the same way. It is not unknown for these devices to give false positive readings.

What also has to be borne in mind is that alcoholic drinks have different gravities, expressed as % proof. This can range from 1% to 40% or more. This can influence the result of a breath test.

What should happen at the police station and what actually happens are two entirely different things. Not following procedure to the letter and the law can result in a case being dismissed at trial. It appears that, at present, a second breath test is carried out and the blood test is an optional extra, not an alternative to the breath test.

Before the introduction of the electronic testing devices, the Draeger Breath Test was used. This used a glass tube containing crystals that turned green if alcohol was present in exhaled breath. A second breath test, again, using the Draeger Breath Test, was conducted at the police station and then a blood or urine sample was taken and sent for analysis, the defendant being given a sample to have analysed at their own expense. Of the two, the blood test was and still is the most accurate indication of how much alcohol a person has in their blood. I can remember at least two cases I had, whilst in the police, when the blood test results came back showing the arrested motorists were under the legal limit when the blood samples were taken. Just because a motorist provides a sample of breath that shows the presence of alcohol in that sample, this does not, in itself, mean that the motorist is "over the limit", only that they have consumed a drink or drinks containing alcohol.

My suspicion, which is genuinely-held, is that the machines at police stations do not measure the ratio of alcohol in a person's blood, more likely, the gravity of the alcohol they have consumed, and politicians, civil servants, police officers and the public are being lead a merry dance by those with the most to gain from keeping up the pretence that the machines can analyse blood/alcohol levels. As stated above, blood sample taken from a motorist who has provided a sample of breath at the roadside is, by far, the most accurate method of determining blood/alcohol levels. It does beg the question as to how many motorists have been wrongly convicted or escaped conviction on the basis of evidence that is, at best, highly questionable. The blood sample must now become compulsory once again, not an optional extra and evidence of blood/alcohol levels based on the results of the blood test, not a machine that is little more than a gas analyser.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

I am sorry people but i am putting up this link from an Australian anti Drink drive commercial shown on Prime Time TV

IT CUT DRINK DRIVING ACCIDENTS BY A THIRD

Be warned as to the content

I have no time for people who seem to think it is acceptable to drink and drive, no matter what the amount. People need to consider the human cost of your actions

Moderators choice as to leave it up but it is shown on Australian TV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2mf8DtWWd8

This is a very sombre video, which cuts no corners.
I hope the site mods leave on here.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

I have attended RTAs where drivers were clearly unfit to drive due to consumption of alcohol and it really does take a lot of self-restraint to not want to give them a bloody good hard slap. In cases where innocent people had suffered serious/life-changing/life-threatening/fatal injuries as the result of a driver under the influence, the red mist would descend and it would not be uncommon to hear police officers using some pretty strong language. Add to that the psychological effect such an incident has on police officers, paramedics and firefighters and you can quickly see that it is not just those who are involved in and have to deal with the incident who are affected.

The best analogy I can think of that describes the effect a serious/fatal drink-drive accident has is that of dropping a pebble into a pool. As the ripples spread out and get larger, this symbolises the number of people who are affected, directly and indirectly, by the incident. The victim's immediate family, extended family, neighbours, their local community, work colleagues, friends, those whose lives they have touched in some way as well as the professionals who attended them in their final moments are all affected in some way.

Don't forget that the number of RTAs involving people driving under the influence of drugs is on the increase.

[des8]

Re: Help Me Please Unfair Dismissal Query

As a matter of interest do the police release an "over the limit" driver before he has sobered up?
If not the op could not have been drunk at work.