Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

[bmw2602]

Hello everyone, hope you can give me some advice really stuck here, My company who i work for is forcing me to pay them £2500 to a works vehicle which got damaged in flood water, i approached a which i thought was a puddle and went through it slowly then a landrover came past me the other direction going at some speed and caused a wave which flooded the engine of my van i tried to explain this and they had me in a disiplinary meeting the next day and they said it was my fault and now bulling me in to paying for the engine that they repaired, help not sure what to do now they wouldnt give me time to discuss with a solicitor they set up a meeting for the next day to discuss payment and have not had time to see a solicitor on my options, please can anyone help !

[MissFM]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

Hi BMW

Why isn't it an insurance claim? :noidea:

[Tools]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

One of three conditions has to be met for you to lawfully make deductions from wages or take payments from a worker. The deduction or payment must be:

• required or authorised by legislation (for example, income tax or national insurance deductions)
• authorised by the worker's contract - provided the worker has been given a written copy of the relevant terms or a written explanation of them before it is made
• consented to by the worker in writing before it is made.

Have a look in your contract and see where( if anywhere ) it mentions recovery of costs following damage to company property.

They can only remove it from your wages with your consent, if you are liable for the damage (contractually) then they would have to agree repayment with you in writing.

[bmw2602]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

Hi BMW

Why isn't it an insurance claim? :noidea:

Hi thanks for a reply, its in the contract that we would have to pay an insurance excess if there is damage to the vehicle and when he asked why ? it was not done on the insurance they said they just got it repaired with no explanation and i am liable for the full amount !

[bmw2602]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

One of three conditions has to be met for you to lawfully make deductions from wages or take payments from a worker. The deduction or payment must be:

• required or authorised by legislation (for example, income tax or national insurance deductions)
• authorised by the worker's contract - provided the worker has been given a written copy of the relevant terms or a written explanation of them before it is made
• consented to by the worker in writing before it is made.

Have a look in your contract and see where( if anywhere ) it mentions recovery of costs following damage to company property.

They can only remove it from your wages with your consent, if you are liable for the damage (contractually) then they would have to agree repayment with you in writing.

Hi thanks for your reply, just read the contract and it says;

* if damage to a vehicle belonging to the company is incurred as a result of your negligence or in breach of the vehicles and driving policy you may be liable for the total cost of repairing the vehicle for paying any insurance excess and/or any increase in premiums following a claim, payments will be deducted from your pay unless an alternative method of payment is agreed with the company !

[teaboy2]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

If they said i was liable for the full amount - I would say not according to my contract and certainly not according to section 13 (unlawful deductions of wages) and section 14 (excepted deductions) of the employment rights act 1996.

Any such deduction would be therefore not only unlawful to which i would have the right to bring a claim to either employment tribunal or civil court as a country court claim, but it would also be a breach of contract.

Thats what i would say - Make sure you put it in writing!!

It also sounds like the may not have followed correct disciplinary procedure too, which would be another big no no on their part!

As per the clause in the contract - Tell them to prove it, ask for the evidence that it was caused by your negligence, ask how are you responsible for the whether that made the road flooded, how are you responsible for the law of physics that resulted in the wave caused by the land rover coming the opposite way, and flooding the engine. etc. And best of all, how are you liable for two freak acts of God!!

[MissFM]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

I agree with Teaboy.

How dare they say you were driving negligently - that's the sort of thing to be decided by a court of law!:incourt:

It sounds like an accident (these things happen lol) with any "blame" attaching to the other party. Any idiot knows that it's not only ill-mannered but dangerous to drive through a flood when someone else is already doing so - let alone to go fast.:car:

Write them a letter explaining all this, point by point, in language that cannot be misunderstood.:nono:

[Crazy council]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

I would agree what the others say, but if i was in that position.... but...

am not the greatest fan of arguing back with an employer, especialy if its a well paid stable job. and if there were any warnings on the road, route. they will class you s negligent. Maybe agree a long term repayment shedule... tell your manager that you dont agree, but will make the payment at 10pw just to not casue a fuss, see if he can set you up with some overtime to cover every month......

Like i say, i agree with what the others say, you have on the face of it, very reasonable grounds to argue with them.... it all depends on the details....... my opinion is more about other ways to deal with things than direct confrontation...... BUT I FULLY AGREE WITH THE OTHERS

[MissFM]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

Yes, I can see your point CC - and I would normally go for the conciliatory approach, too.

There is just something chiming badly here (something very wrong) - why haven't they claimed on the insurance and sure, the OP would be responsible for the excess?

[Tools]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

Completely agree with the previous posts, they have to prove you were negligent.

Get them to put everything in writing, do not agree to pay for the damage until/if they can prove your negligence.

[teaboy2]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

Completely agree with the previous posts, they have to prove you were negligent.

Get them to put everything in writing, do not agree to pay for the damage until/if they can prove your negligence.

And whilst asking them to put all their supporting evidence as of your alleged negligence in writing (and signed witness statements) - Tell them that they can take you to court for it as you do not agree you are liable for the cost of the repair.

Also demand an explanation as to why the repair was not carried out via the insurance company and dispute the fairness and lawfulness of the clause in the contract - Pointing out it can not be deemed a fair clause as by its very nature it is in conflict with your statutory rights to not receive unlawful deductions from wages. And any attempt to use the contract as clause to make such deductions would be a breach of your statutory rights and consent can not be given expressively or universally. Consent must be given where amounts are actually known and agreed too at the time of consent being given, where such consent is given in writing clearly and unequivocally - As per contract law!

Those last 2-3 sentences will have then in going round in circles!!

[des8]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

Regarding the insurance aspect of this thread, do be aware that the policy probably does not cover damage caused to the vehicle by driving through flood waters.
Mechanical and electrical failures are generally excluded from cover and the insured is supposed to protect his car from damage and take dare of it. Driving through flood water, even as little as 6", can ruin an engine as , on modern cars especially, air intakes can be low to the ground.
Flood damage is (or was when I was in insurance) normally only applicable to parked or stationary vehicles.

[bmw2602]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

I would agree what the others say, but if i was in that position.... but...

am not the greatest fan of arguing back with an employer, especialy if its a well paid stable job. and if there were any warnings on the road, route. they will class you s negligent. Maybe agree a long term repayment shedule... tell your manager that you dont agree, but will make the payment at 10pw just to not casue a fuss, see if he can set you up with some overtime to cover every month......

Like i say, i agree with what the others say, you have on the face of it, very reasonable grounds to argue with them.... it all depends on the details....... my opinion is more about other ways to deal with things than direct confrontation...... BUT I FULLY AGREE WITH THE OTHERS

Hi just seen the invoices and i dont think they are fair i think they have done work on the engine that probably didnt need it in result a full overhall looks like, told them i think they are discrepences in the total bill and he was not happy, told him i still stand by what i said that i am not at fault but will offer £10 a week and the reply was not acceceptable wants more a lot more by the sounds of it, he said i am stalling and he is not happy.

[bmw2602]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

Hi all hope you are all well,
Little update on this problem, they were not interested in what i had to say they said i was just stalling and they told me that they were executing there right to take money from my wages and i said no cause i was not at fault so wrote a letter stating i was not accepting fault and was disputing the bill, but they went ahead anyway and started taking £30 week off my wages, i decided to look for another job cause all the other workers were saying that the boss was in the right to take money off me and cause i didnt agree with them they were giving me the cold shoulder, so it wasn't a very nice place to work in anymore, i have now given up my job last week and recieved a letter from them saying they are keeping my week in hand wages and holidays owed and knocking it off the bill total £625.92 owing to me, and it also says that when i start paying the rest of it back they will release my P45 and not before then.. HELP !!! dont know what to do now, can they do that, any ideas would be very gratefull..

[Tools]

Re: Company forcing me to pay for damage to Co vehicle

Go straight to ACAS http://www.acas.org.uk/contact, they cannot deduct money from your wages without mutual agreement.

You may also have a case for constructive dismissal, however do check with ACAS first and let us know how you get on