can i be fired?

[bluebottle]

Re: can i be fired?

I wonder if Ben will ever revisit this forum.
He came asking if embroidering the truth about a colleague's situation was likely to cost him his job.
What he got IMO was scary stories about sub judice and perverting the course of justice!!
We have no reason to suppose his employer will go to the police with his statement.
If she does he has not (IMO) been guilty of contempt of court because:
1) he has not published anything which causes justice to be substantially impeded (contempt of Court act 1981)
2)he has done nothing to interfere with the administration of justice (common law contempt)
Further he can hardly be guilty of perverting the course of justice, as that requires the offender to
1) actually do something
2)which has a tendency to
3)and is intended to pervert
4)the course of justice

How can a statement which was INTENDED to be private fall within those parameters?

Also, whilst an act designed to pervert the course of justice may also fall foul of sub judice rules, the charge will be the greater i.e. perverting the course of justice

Further I very much doubt if the statement given to the boss is written in the correct form to be used as a witness statement.

Why has this thread moved off subject?

Crossed with op's post above.
Glad it is all over for Ben

With criminal cases, Des, you have to be very careful, once the wheels of justice are in motion. Having seen CID colleagues' cases they had worked on for six months or more go mammaries up because of a witness saying something to someone not connected with the case and the whole thing then unravelling, thereby wasting the time of the officers involved and taxpayers' money as well as denying the victim justice, you tend to err on the side of caution. In addition to this, a person accused of any offence at law has a right to a fair hearing and this is enshrined in law. Although a victim has a right to justice, albeit that there are those who are currently playing silly buggers with the justice system, making you wonder just whose rights are more important, the person they are accusing has a right to a fair hearing.

Turning to the OP's boss, given, because of the nature of the working environment, they had a statutory duty imposed on them as regards the suitability of an employee remaining in the workplace. However, commonsense should tell a boss to speak to and be guided by the police, where the police are involved, rather than do something off their own bat and, possibly, prejudice the allegedly-errant employee's rights and a potential crime victim's rights, too.

[enquirer]

Re: can i be fired?

If she does he has not (IMO) been guilty of contempt of court because:
1) he has not published anything which causes justice to be substantially impeded (contempt of Court act 1981)
2)he has done nothing to interfere with the administration of justice (common law contempt)
Further he can hardly be guilty of perverting the course of justice, as that requires the offender to
1) actually do something
2)which has a tendency to
3)and is intended to pervert
4)the course of justice

She, not He.

[des8]

Re: can i be fired?

With criminal cases, Des, you have to be very careful, once the wheels of justice are in motion. Having seen CID colleagues' cases they had worked on for six months or more go mammaries up because of a witness saying something to someone not connected with the case and the whole thing then unravelling, thereby wasting the time of the officers involved and taxpayers' money as well as denying the victim justice, you tend to err on the side of caution. In addition to this, a person accused of any offence at law has a right to a fair hearing and this is enshrined in law. Although a victim has a right to justice, albeit that there are those who are currently playing silly buggers with the justice system, making you wonder just whose rights are more important, the person they are accusing has a right to a fair hearing.

Turning to the OP's boss, given, because of the nature of the working environment, they had a statutory duty imposed on them as regards the suitability of an employee remaining in the workplace. However, commonsense should tell a boss to speak to and be guided by the police, where the police are involved, rather than do something off their own bat and, possibly, prejudice the allegedly-errant employee's rights and a potential crime victim's rights, too.

Whilst appreciating your caution, BB, I do think in this particular case the forum reaction was a bit OTT.

I tend to be a bit of an awkward b****r, and don't go along with being told what I can and cannot do, unless it is the law.
Hence I would not agree with your interpretation 100% in this case of what may or may not be said/done when a case is sub judice, what is contempt of court or what constitutes perverting the course of justice.
If it happens that many hours of police work is undone by the words or action of someone acting legally, well so be it. We have already lost many of our freedoms, and I do not wish to see more go by allowing interpretations of the law by any official, however well meaning.
I think you may possibly agree, because I think it was one of your posts that queried police officers assisting bailiffs by pulling over cars, and so using their authority improperly.:tinysmile_twink_t2:

Anyway,'tis good to have an open forum where differences of opinion can be aired without rancour

[bluebottle]

Re: can i be fired?

Whilst appreciating your caution, BB, I do think in this particular case the forum reaction was a bit OTT.

I tend to be a bit of an awkward b****r, You said it! Lol! and don't go along with being told what I can and cannot do, unless it is the law.
Hence I would not agree with your interpretation 100% in this case of what may or may not be said/done when a case is sub judice, what is contempt of court or what constitutes perverting the course of justice. I've told witnesses not to discuss details of cases in which they are witnesses, complainants or defendants with anyone not connected with the case. With cases going to the Crown Court, it is important that this is heeded as a complainant, defendant or witness may inadvertently discuss the matter with a potential juror in that trial. If you have been on Jury Service, you will be familiar with the routine for selecting jurors.
If it happens that many hours of police work is undone by the words or action of someone acting legally, well so be it. We have already lost many of our freedoms, and I do not wish to see more go by allowing interpretations of the law by any official, however well meaning.

I think you may possibly agree, because I think it was one of your posts that queried police officers assisting bailiffs by pulling over cars, and so using their authority improperly. Correct there. Such operations are illegal. They also breach Home Office Guidelines. Also, a bailiff reaching in through the window of a vehicle and attempting to forcibly take the keys from the driver is risking a good hard slap at the very least, though a bloody good hiding is what they are likely to get and, to be honest, is what they deserve for engaging in what is, in essence, an illegal act. :tinysmile_twink_t2:
Anyway,'tis good to have an open forum where differences of opinion can be aired without rancour Couldn't agree more.

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