working hours confusion

[skagav]

I work for a company and I am salaried for the year and in which our weekly hours are worked out over a 17 week reference period. I drive a 3.5 tonne van delivering all over the UK. We can and do work over anything from 12 to 20 hours a day.is this legal ? I've searched sites high and low and still come to no conclusion as to what is law or not for a 3.5 tonne driver. The day not only consists of over 4 hours driving but is also continuous work. Been on vosa site and working time directive site and not forgetting GB drivers hours. Please tell me if I'm right in saying that were not supposed to work more than 11 hours continuous work in any one day and can I refuse to work more hours than the 11 hour rule? Our company is taking liberties on all the drivers and we just want to bite back without anything being thrown back in our face, as much help would be gratefully appreciated, thanks in advance. If you need to ask any further question please don't hesitate to ask me and I'll go deeper if need be.

[labman]

Re: working hours confusion

The link below gives a pretty down to earth explanation of your position. You need to scroll down a bit to get to your situation:

http://www.transportcafe.co.uk/drivers_hours.html


I hope this helps. :beagle:

[Tools]

Re: working hours confusion

You are correct that your duty time should not be more than 11 hours in any one day, I assume that the van is plated at 3500kg and does not tow a trailer? Is the van fitted with a towbar and or a Tachograph?

Goods vehicles and passenger-carrying vehicles

Daily driving limit

You must not drive for more than 10 hours in a day. The daily driving limit applies to time spent at the wheel actually driving on a public road. Off-road driving counts as duty time.

Duty time

If you work as a driver for a company, duty time is any working time. If you’re self-employed, duty time is only time you spend driving the vehicle or doing other work related to the vehicle or its load.
Daily duty limit

You must not be on duty for more than 11 hours in any working day. This limit doesn’t apply on any working day when you don’t drive.
You must record your hours on a weekly record sheet or on a tachograph.

https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/goods-vehicles

[skagav]

Re: working hours confusion

You are correct that your duty time should not be more than 11 hours in any one day, I assume that the van is plated at 3500kg and does not tow a trailer? Is the van fitted with a towbar and or a Tachograph?

no towbar fitted and no tachograph,thanks for reply.just a quick one why I am here, how can I tell my boss that I am not working more than 11 hours in any one day (LEGALLY) so he cannot threaten me with the sack?

[seduraed]

Re: working hours confusion

Get together with the other drivers and join a union . keep paying the subs . But go in gently to your boss first . as Softly softly catchee monkey . Keep accurate records of your hours . ask nicely if you can have the duty hours in writing . This will allow your boss to give himself enough rope to hang himself with .

[Tools]

Re: working hours confusion

He has a legal duty to make sure the rules are complied with.

I have found you a better definition that (if you follow the flow chart in section 2 and read also Annex 2) will better help to see if your job/hours are governed by the rules.

VOSA Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs

If the duty time etc DOES apply to you and the other drivers then I would agree with seduraed that you will probably get a better result if you go in softly rather than all guns blazing. Make sure you read it FULLY and if you are still convinced you are working beyond the regs (don`t overlook the part where it exempts you if you do less than 4Hrs driving) then I suggest the following:-

You could print off a copy of the PDF I have linked and query it with him, asking him for clarification and if needed to issue a memo that explains your inclusion or exemption to this. That way you have it in writing from him and if needed will be able to use it in any future disputes/tribunals. There is also an example of a weekly record sheet that I would recommend both you and the other drivers complete daily for use as evidence should you need it.(That`s the Arse covering part :tinysmile_twink_t2

If problems persist or he digs his heels in even though he has been shown to be wrong, you could also "mention" that you overheard a conversation "in the cafe" or "on site" that "joe from smiths" has been done by Vosa for not keeping records of duty time/working more than the regs and that both he and his firm are going to be prosecuted for the breaches.

As a last resort, you could contact your local Vosa unofficially, my past dealings with them have shown them to be quite helpful. If you ask them to pay a "random passing visit" it may just give your boss the kick he needs.

Would be useful if you could point your colleagues to registering on Legalbeagles and contributing to this thread, that way they can see the information for themselves too.

Good luck, I work in the transport industry too so if theres anything else you need to ask then fire away.

[labman]

Re: working hours confusion

That's a really interesting read, even for someone not in the trade. I used to drive a taxi and sometimes was made to drive when I was clearly 'not at my best' for doing so. For example one day I did my normal school runs, then at night I picked some passengers up at midnight and drove them to Stansted airport (a significant journey from the Rhondda Valleys), then drove back and just made it in time to the morning school run. Got home about 11am, then back in work at 2pm and worked though till 4 the next morning.

To me this is madness, but the industry seems to be exempt from normal employment law from my brief experience of it, and the fact I know a fair few coach drivers and a couple of coach company owners.

It's also crazy that most coach companies I know have a car so the coach driver can use this in order to avoid being on a tacho to get round the rules. They'll drive the car all the way to Portsmouth, then start their hours on the coach. So much for the safety of passengers!

An interesting read - thanks! :beagle: