Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

[Sue Johns]

Hi Everyone

I work at a convalescent home where all the day staff are paid time and a half at weekends but night staff are not. This came about several years ago after I had been working there 10 years. Night staff do earn about 25% more than day staff already and this seems to be the reason why we have not been offered the extra. My manager seems to think that because night staff receive an enhanced rate of pay ie day rate plus 25% that this is fair. My contract does not state that I receive an enhanced rate of pay, it just gives the amount so I see this as my basic rate of pay. I wondered if anyone here would consider that this is discrimination.

[bluebottle]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

Naughty employer. Night working rate is Time + 33%, not 25%. Where does the employer get 25% from?

[teaboy2]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

Any link to where you got that info from BB? As last i heard there was no statutory set percentage to unsociable hour premium and it was only recommended in shift pay 805 published by IDS in 2005 as being between 16.5% and 33.3%. So as far as am aware the percentage can be set by the employer and 25% is not the worse i have seen for unsociable hours premium - Which in this case is the difference between night workers pay and day shift workers pay.

Hours on day shift are not classed as unsociable unless there is an morning and/or afternoon shift where some hours on said shifts maybe unsociable e.g before 8am and after 8pm. in Shift pay 805 (not sure if its available online as a published document), it was recommended that a unsociable premium between 4% and 25% be paid to morning and afternoon shift workers.

Suejohn - I wouldn't consider it discrimination, as night shift workers are entitled to more pay due to them working unsociable hours which means they see less of their friends and have much less family time than a day shift worker does, hence why they are compensated by the unsociable hours premium.

[bluebottle]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

Any link to where you got that info from BB? As last i heard there was no statutory set percentage to unsociable hour premium and it was only recommended in shift pay 805 published by IDS in 2005 as being between 16.5% and 33.3%. So as far as am aware the percentage can be set by the employer and 25% is not the worse i have seen for unsociable hours premium - Which in this case is the difference between night workers pay and day shift workers pay.

Hours on day shift are not classed as unsociable unless there is an morning and/or afternoon shift where some hours on said shifts maybe unsociable e.g before 8am and after 8pm. in Shift pay 805 (not sure if its available online as a published document), it was recommended that a unsociable premium between 4% and 25% be paid to morning and afternoon shift workers.

Suejohn - I wouldn't consider it discrimination, as night shift workers are entitled to more pay due to them working unsociable hours which means they see less of their friends and have much less family time than a day shift worker does, hence why they are compensated by the unsociable hours premium.

I know that when I worked in the retail industry, TB, we were paid Time + 33.3% for night working and that is what it was at that time. Obviously, this has changed in the intervening time, but then, when you have a hopelessly out-of-touch buffoon like IDS, the less reputable and less scrupulous employers will try and get away with paying as little as they possibly can. That impacts on the benefits system and, paying tax on my police pension and some CT, I object strongly to having the tax I have paid being used to unfairly and unlawfully subsidise a low-paying employer. If they cannot pay a fair and living wage, they should not be in business, not scrounging subsidies off the taxpayer through the benefits system.

[teaboy2]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

I know that when I worked in the retail industry, TB, we were paid Time + 33.3% for night working and that is what it was at that time. Obviously, this has changed in the intervening time, but then, when you have a hopelessly out-of-touch buffoon like IDS, the less reputable and less scrupulous employers will try and get away with paying as little as they possibly can. That impacts on the benefits system and, paying tax on my police pension and some CT, I object strongly to having the tax I have paid being used to unfairly and unlawfully subsidise a low-paying employer. If they cannot pay a fair and living wage, they should not be in business, not scrounging subsidies off the taxpayer through the benefits system.

I know exactly what you mean my friend, i have seen a lot of friends struggling since IDS got put in charge of welfare and benefits etc. but the problem with paying a living wage is a lot of businesses simply can not afford to pay employees a living wage, some are struggling just to pay national minimum. But where is the government help these employers need? Its no where to be seen, its all gloss and PR (aimed and stock markets) but no real action on the ground!

As for bedroom tax, well i told them to go F**K themselves - and yes for once i actually used freeman of the land and the bill of rights, magna carter etc. I.e. i never agreed to or consented to such, and you serve me not me serve you. Not heard a whimper since lol

[bluebottle]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

I think it is what comes of believing that so-called Free Market will solve everything. Er, no, because the so-called Free Market is nothing more than a smokescreen for large companies to wipe out the competition and hold the consumer to ransom.

[teaboy2]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

The Free Market Model was doomed to fail from the very start to be honest, it was built on issuing credit, and as we are finding out now that credit can not always be paid back, leaving a black hole of debt. Printing money etc doesn't solve this as that hole of debt will get bigger and bigger and before long countries (and this is the biggest threat to global economy) will not have the income to pay their debts - Which means countries will go bust, like Argentina did in 2001, only difference is, other countries will eventually be in a position where they can not afford to bail out others, so in the next couple of decades banks will collapse, national and and global markets will collapse and we will be in what is seen as the Modern Economic Dark Ages as the free market model isn't working, it was never going to work. There is a red line, and once that line is crossed, there will not be enough money in the world to pay off the debts owed, then hey bingo we are all bust, banks closed taking their customers money with down with them! The signs are there you just have to look around you to see them.

Take my Advice, get a good strong secure safe installed and put your savings in their instead of in the bank. At least then you will have cash when the red line is crossed.

The same people that predicted the housing crash and the Euro Zone problems and the global economic crash have predicted the above, they are a national magazine too.

Heres the article - Click Here

And heres the killer:

"Despite David Cameron’s talk of “austerity”, he’s going to add an estimated Ł700 billion to the national debt in just five years. That’s more than Tony Blair and Gordon Brown added to the national debt in eleven years."

So the national debt is not getting any lower its still increasing drastically at at ever more increasing rate.

[wales01man]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

If you refuse to pay the bedroom tax and the benefit is reduced who do you think is gonna pay the difference?

[teaboy2]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

Point is Walesman, i can afford to pay full rental, though the house is in my mothers name and she is a pensioner (they clearly didn't understand that it only applies to those on benefit of working age either, i might add). Yet they want to tax us on the extra bedroom, despite it being used as an office by myself and is therefore not a bedroom! so my argument with them is a strong one on that point alone.

Reason i am against the Bedroom tax is simply because its a Tax that hits the poorest and the disabled people that need every penny they get the most. Most of whom can barely afford 1-2 meals a day and some that have to rely on charity food banks for food. So where are they going to get the extra Ł20 -Ł30 of so extra quid to per week? If anything it will force more people to rely on charity, and who funds the charities? Thats right the tax payer does, by government funding and by voluntarily donations. If we cut overseas aid there would be no need for a bedroom tax either!

[wales01man]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

Thanks Teaboy are you paying the tax if not who is ?

[teaboy2]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

No am not paying. My mother is the tenant i just live with her in our housing association house and use the spare bedroom as my office away from work so to speak. Yes i pay the rent by giving my mother the money for it and pay towards the food as well. But point is the council seem to think that because i am of working age and my mother claimed housing benefit as a pensioner that we must pay the bedroom tax also, despite myself not being on benefits not being the tenant (as my mother is). I tld her to cease claiming housing benefit and told the council to go **** themselves lol

I had sent letter after letter pointing out to them that the bedroom tax only applies to benefit claiments of working age whom are the tenants and the income of anyone else in the house hold had no effect (where the bedroom tax is concerned), before i told them where to stick it.

I only pay my self national minimum wage (hence why my mother was eligible for housing benefit), though i can take more in wages per week, since i am the sole owner of the company and am free to pay myself whatever i like, so i could pay my self Ł1,000s if i wanted too, but i don't need too. If i was the tenant then off course i would not get housing benefit and would pay myself more to cover the rent, but am not, am just a lodger in all but name.

[wales01man]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

I take it shes exempt from the Bedroom tax then your not refusing to pay you or your mother don't have to pay anyway

[teaboy2]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

Exactly my friend! But trying to tell the council that is like banging you head against a brick wall, hence my written outburst to them using freeman of the land, bill of rights and magna carta etc, though telling them my LB user name may have been what really made them zip it lol.

[wales01man]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

There was I thinking there was a loophole somewhere thanks for clearing that up,i think the bedroom tax is totallt unfair unneccasary and attacks the poorest and the weakest

[teaboy2]

Re: Day and Night Staff Difference in Pay

There was I thinking there was a loophole somewhere thanks for clearing that up,i think the bedroom tax is totallt unfair unneccasary and attacks the poorest and the weakest

Yeah exactly mate. though there is a loop hole, and that's if the spare bedroom was used for something other than a bedroom, such as an office, in which case it is no longer a bedroom and is no longer not in use, but in use! In other words, take the dam bed out and put a desk in there lol


They even had the cheek to ask me, on the phone, once what my business average weekly profit was, i told her its "none of your business but its a hell of a lot more than you earn in a year no doubt". So she then asked "why i don't pay myself more and why i wouldn't tell her the actual figures".

So i said " Firstly paying myself a modest sum is good business practice (allows me to keep the profits and save them up in the business account for use on future expansions, unexpected/expected costs etc), stops me from becoming money mad and having the money go to my head, plus i don't like boosting about or being seen/known as being richer than everyone else in my area (so not to draw unwanted attention). And secondly, my business is a limited company and therefore a separate legal entity, so its profits have nothing to do with you, all you need to know is what i pay myself each week or month".

On a side note, there is a judgement due on the judicial review from may 2013 next Tuesday i believe, though it may get delayed again. Fingers cross its good news.