Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

[simli20]

Hi,

I am a senior member of staff in a Customer Service Insurance business, last Friday it was approximately 5.05pm and a member of staff was struggling to make out a voicemail on a clients voicemail system, the voicemail was either a wind up or somebody with a disability/speech problem saying do not leave me a voicemail if its PPI/compensation claim etc, I asked the member of staff to write down the number so I could listen to it and tell him how to proceed (as my job entails, to assist other members of staff) I tried to ring the voicemail a few times however the dial tone said 'There has been a fault - please retry' - eventually I did get through and confirmed to the member of staff it was ok to leave a voicemail. 5 minutes later I was questioned by the team leader, extremely rudely (she's new, and had been left on her own in charge for the first time the team leader, manager and trainer had all left, in my opinion she should not be in the position anyway however the manager, hr manager and this lady are all good friends both in and outside of work) she asked me why I had called a voicemail numerous times and hung up on it, I explained to her politely that I was checking the voicemail for another member of staff, she then started to scream at me, not shout, scream in front of the entire office as to why I had done this, again I explained as my job role entails, I need to assist other members of staff who need help. She then continued and called over the person I was helping and was raising her voice at him, I went over and explained the situation again, she then erupted and screamed in front of the office again CAN I HAVE A WORD PLEASE, she took me into a corner and was in my face screaming at me, I asked if we could discuss this privately and professionally however she carried on bellowing in my face, I felt extremely threatened and offended, this has been on my mind ever since as it was not pleasant.

Over the weekend I have received a disciplinary hearing via post stating I am being accused of the following:
1) causing 21 voicemails on the businesses voicemail system whilst I was assisting the new member of staff (these voicemails were actually took off prior to me helping him as I overheard her saying she had taken 21 voicemails off the system, this information is therefore incorrect)

2) I have been heard "taking the fun" out of a client with a speech impediment on his voicemail, which I realised was just a voicemail he left purposely to scare off sales calls, I am in a senior position, I am above insulting customers, I certainly did not and would never do this

3) Failing to give an explanation to why I had called the voicemail to my team leader (I did, 3 times, whilst being screamed at)I believe that the reason they have issued this is because the team leader in question has stepped down from the position therefore a team leader vacancy has opened, I would be next in line for the position as i hold the most experience in the department, they get minimal or no applications due to the poor salary for the job spec, I have done my best to progress throughout the company, had interviews for many positions however the HR manager turns me down everytime as she 'would like to see me as a team leader' however I feel this is an excuse to decline me a promotion. now they have put me on a disciplinary, unwarranted, which rapidly declines my chances of promotion.

I also had a disciplinary 11 months 3 weeks ago for texting a family relative once on a weekend (who had just gone through bereavement - not that the company had any consideration for this) to make sure they got to there destination safely, I am aware that the company know I have been applying for alternative employment and they know that if I get a second disciplinary within 12 months then this is on my file for a further 12 month.

The company have a VERY poor reputation not just with clients however with ex employees too, the staff turnover is rapid, we are currently 1/3 of staff members down as opposed to last year which is the reason for a high amount of voicemails but staff just get treated like it is there own fault, the hours are 8-5.30pm 5 days a week (on top of an hour commute) which includes weekend working too. The company also issue an unrealistic work load on daily basis and expect you to complete new business requests, deal with the phone, emails, referrals, flood assessments, the way the company is being run is a shambles.Please advice the best way to proceed in this regard as I do not need to deal with such stress around this time and I feel nobody should be threatened within a workplace but I have nobody to turn to in the business as the department manager, hr managed and the team leader in question are all really good friends.

Any help would be appreciated.

Kind Regards

[leclerc]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

Was the words: "taking the fun" out of the client in writing?

When is your disciplinary? Have they given a date?

Eloise is the best to do this but please can you edit your post so that it is a bit more reader friendly ie spacing etc, etc,
It was ok for me but others may find it difficult to read.

[simli20]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

They have given a date of next Friday, ideally for them a day after the team leader advert closes. The words used may not have been taking the fun but were words that that effect. The company is unprofessional throughout, constant errors and breakdowns on policies etc, nobody seems to know what they are doing etc. The company only have to researched online and review centre gives them 0.5/5 with over 2000 ratings, articles in the guardian about poor business practices.

I have amended it for slightly easier reading.

Thanks

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

The voicemail was "either a wind up or somebody with a disability/speech problem saying do not leave me a voicemail" - in other words you have absolutely no idea who left that voicemail, whether they had a speech problem or other disability, but "I realised was just a voicemail he left purposely to scare off sales calls" - something for which you had no evidence and which is an appalling assumption on your part. And if people don't want sales calls, then you are legally obliged to stop calling them if they ask you to. Whether or not they are disabled. So based on that I think that there is certainly a case to answer on the second allegation. Whether it is sufficient of a case to warrant a disciplinary outcome, I do not know, but you were out of order in questioning the legitimacy of someones disability. That you were obviously overheard saying something to the effect that the speech impediment was false is clear - so I would suggest that an apology for whatever you said and an assurance that it will not happen again would be the appropriate response to this.

As for the rest, you will have to put your case. You should ask to see the evidence upon which the employer is relying in advance so that you can prepare a defence, and if you do not get that quickly you may ask for a postponement to consider the evidence - but any postponement will only be for a few days. You need to understand that you do not decide whether a disciplinary is warranted - the employer says that it is warranted and so it will take place. Your only position now to is deal with the allegations and the evidence raised regarding those allegations. Unless you are dismissed - and possibly not even then - there is nothing you can do about a disciplinary or its outcome.

Their reputation and conduct is not up for debate in this matter and is irrelevant. Clearly you are unhappy with the company and the job, and despite what you say the HR manager has said, it appears that progression is unlikely to be an option. I would suggest that trying to get past this disciplinary without being dismissed so that you can focus on finding another job in a company you will be happier in should be your goal.

Unfortunately, unless or until they dismiss you (assuming they do which I am not assuming) there is very little anyone could advise other than this.

[simli20]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

The voicemail was "either a wind up or somebody with a disability/speech problem saying do not leave me a voicemail" - in other words you have absolutely no idea who left that voicemail, whether they had a speech problem or other disability, but "I realised was just a voicemail he left purposely to scare off sales calls" - something for which you had no evidence and which is an appalling assumption on your part. And if people don't want sales calls, then you are legally obliged to stop calling them if they ask you to. Whether or not they are disabled. So based on that I think that there is certainly a case to answer on the second allegation. Whether it is sufficient of a case to warrant a disciplinary outcome, I do not know, but you were out of order in questioning the legitimacy of someones disability. That you were obviously overheard saying something to the effect that the speech impediment was false is clear - so I would suggest that an apology for whatever you said and an assurance that it will not happen again would be the appropriate response to this.

As for the rest, you will have to put your case. You should ask to see the evidence upon which the employer is relying in advance so that you can prepare a defence, and if you do not get that quickly you may ask for a postponement to consider the evidence - but any postponement will only be for a few days. You need to understand that you do not decide whether a disciplinary is warranted - the employer says that it is warranted and so it will take place. Your only position now to is deal with the allegations and the evidence raised regarding those allegations. Unless you are dismissed - and possibly not even then - there is nothing you can do about a disciplinary or its outcome.

Their reputation and conduct is not up for debate in this matter and is irrelevant. Clearly you are unhappy with the company and the job, and despite what you say the HR manager has said, it appears that progression is unlikely to be an option. I would suggest that trying to get past this disciplinary without being dismissed so that you can focus on finding another job in a company you will be happier in should be your goal.

Unfortunately, unless or until they dismiss you (assuming they do which I am not assuming) there is very little anyone could advise other than this.

Eloise01, thank you for your response.

I do believe there may be a mix up, maybe i didn't come across clear in my first message. I did not leave a voicemail, nor did i assume anybody had a speech impediment or was disabled or make a comment in this regard, this is what was documented on the disciplinary letter I received, the voicemail was difficult to hear which is the reason the member of staff asked me to check it for him as he couldn't make it out. They had taken a policy out with us and we had to call for further information, once the member of staff phoned him it was difficult to make out what he was saying, it was something to do about not leaving a voicemail, I certainly did not make any comment in regards to the person having a disability, this is something that they have no evidence for either.

Being shouted at in the workplace, what can I do about this, nobody should go to work feeling threatened?

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

Eloise01, thank you for your response.

I do believe there may be a mix up, maybe i didn't come across clear in my first message. I did not leave a voicemail, nor did i assume anybody had a speech impediment or was disabled or make a comment in this regard, this is what was documented on the disciplinary letter I received, the voicemail was difficult to hear which is the reason the member of staff asked me to check it for him as he couldn't make it out. They had taken a policy out with us and we had to call for further information, once the member of staff phoned him it was difficult to make out what he was saying, it was something to do about not leaving a voicemail, I certainly did not make any comment in regards to the person having a disability, this is something that they have no evidence for either.

Being shouted at in the workplace, what can I do about this, nobody should go to work feeling threatened?

Well I only have one side of the story, and it certainly didn't come across the way you now say in your first post. I did quote you!

Until you see their evidence you have no idea what evidence they have, which is why you need to ask for it.

If you want to do something about the alleged shouting at you, put in a grievance. But be aware that I have no expectation that it will do anything but make your position even worse. Putting in a grievance after a disciplinary has been called lacks credence, and I doubt you'll find a witness to back you up. I'd do what you can to fix this ad best you can, stick your head down, and get another job.

[Inca]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

Could it be possible,that ,on 1 of the many times you rang the number, you were speaking and you have been recorded?
You do say in your first post that the possibilty was it was a person with a speech impediment/disabilty had recorded the voicemail.

[simli20]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

Could it be possible,that ,on 1 of the many times you rang the number, you were speaking and you have been recorded?
You do say in your first post that the possibilty was it was a person with a speech impediment/disabilty had recorded the voicemail.

The company have no recording facility so this is not possible, there is no evidence to back up what they are saying. I can put in a request for the evidence but this is only likely to wind them up, they do not like people to have their own opinions or be negative against them. Like you said im going to keep my head down and seek alternative employment

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

You have a legal right to the evidence. But as you say, that doesn't give you much! If they are going to dismiss, best let them screw up as much as possible - and if they aren't going to dismiss, then you run out of any options at all.

[simli20]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

You have a legal right to the evidence. But as you say, that doesn't give you much! If they are going to dismiss, best let them screw up as much as possible - and if they aren't going to dismiss, then you run out of any options at all.

What if they try reducing 'grading' / wage, they have tried this in the past with previous employees.

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

What if they try reducing 'grading' / wage, they have tried this in the past with previous employees.

Unless there is a contractual right to do so, they can't enforce it. But sometimes it is a choice - dismissal or demotion. If you make the choice, then that is "your choice". If you choose a demotion, that is legal.

[simli20]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

Unless there is a contractual right to do so, they can't enforce it. But sometimes it is a choice - dismissal or demotion. If you make the choice, then that is "your choice". If you choose a demotion, that is legal.

Oh because what they have done in the past is just told staff they are being downgraded as a result of the disciplinary. And it is disclosed on the letter as 'taking fun' out of the client - obviously allegations I entirely deny

[Inca]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

I didn't mean the company had recorded you,I meant that you could have been recorded on the customers voicemail and the customer has complained.

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary Issued incorrectly - advice?

Oh because what they have done in the past is just told staff they are being downgraded as a result of the disciplinary. And it is disclosed on the letter as 'taking fun' out of the client - obviously allegations I entirely deny

As I said, unless this is a contractual penalty - and it may be, because what most people think of as their contract (that piece of paper you signed) is not the entire contract, and employers policies etc., also comprise the contract - then they cannot without your agreement, although the other choices may be even less palatable.

With the best will in the world, 95% of people deny the allegations, whatever the allegations are! What is their evidence? That is what you need to know. Have you asked them for the evidence? If you don't ask to see it you can't prepare, and you can't exactly complain that they didn't give you what you never asked for. I don't think you appreciate that this allegation is actually very serious - it's discrimination! And the employer does not have to prove the allegation to the standard required in criminal law - they only have to show that they have a reasonable belief that you did something. That may be the word of your manager - and I am afraid to say that it may also be the word of your colleagues!