DR's Note and working

[labman]

Re: DR's Note and working

Did your doctor tick the 'May be fit for work' box on the fit note or not?

I don't think we are in a position to question the doctor's signing the fit note, other than to comment, as CC did, it's not obvious why. You know what was said in the consultation, and whether or not there are things not mentioned here which maybe affect you and your ability to cope with the newborn child. These things may give a perfectly good reason for you being given a fit note.

Did you attend the appointment for yourself, or to support your partner, or was it a joint appointment about the general situation? You don't need to answer that as it is personal, but there may be other circumstances of which we are not aware.

[CleverClogs]

Re: DR's Note and working

the bottom line is that you work at your employers pleasure

:rofl:
I do believe, my dear, that you may have phrased that infelicitous comment to provide a comic feed to analingus. msl:

[CleverClogs]

Re: DR's Note and working

Is there no such thing as Mother/Baby clinics?

"Humbug! Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons?" :grin:

[CleverClogs]

Re: DR's Note and working

I don't think we are in a position to question the doctor's signing the fit note, other than to comment, as CC did, it's not obvious why. You know what was said in the consultation, and whether or not there are things not mentioned here which maybe affect you and your ability to cope with the newborn child. These things may give a perfectly good reason for you being given a fit note.

It is certainly most curious.

Eloise believes that it may be illegal to issue a fit (sic) note containing a partial or entire untruth and she may be correct, though the difficulty there would be one of establishing what the doctor believed to be true at the time s/he issued the note. There may be some significance in the detail that the couple also have an older child, as the OP's wife may have suffered from PMD before.

Even if it is not illegal, one would expect a medical practitioner who issued such a note to have a good and compelling reason to do so, lest s/he risked facing a "fitness to practise" panel.

[Inca]

Re: DR's Note and working

Pleased to hear your news...lets hope baby continues to thrive,,they are fickle little beasts,if they think they are winning they yell louder lol
And for speaking to your employer...I totally agree with Elo and the others,,that's definitely the right way to go.
Beware of Drs wielding sick notes

[labman]

Re: DR's Note and working

Beware of Drs wielding sick notes

What do you mean by this Inca?

[Inca]

Re: DR's Note and working

What do you mean by this Inca?

I mean OP should be wary of his Dr issuing sick notes when he isn't sick,,it was a joke.

[Eloise01]

Re: DR's Note and working

It is certainly most curious.

Eloise believes that it may be illegal to issue a fit (sic) note containing a partial or entire untruth and she may be correct, though the difficulty there would be one of establishing what the doctor believed to be true at the time s/he issued the note. There may be some significance in the detail that the couple also have an older child, as the OP's wife may have suffered from PMD before.

Even if it is not illegal, one would expect a medical practitioner who issued such a note to have a good and compelling reason to do so, lest s/he risked facing a "fitness to practise" panel.

I don't believe it is illegal because it isn't, and I didn't say it was - it is unprofessional and subject to disciplinary (and financial) penalties. A fit note is a doctors opinion as to whether you are fit for work. "Family illness" is not a diagnosis and it is not a comment on your own fitness for work - and since the OP has told us that that was what the doctor has written, then the doctor has, in fact, told the OP to take time off sick because someone else is sick! That isn't in his purview - that is a view about what the OP's priorities should be in the doctors opinion! And as such it is a view that he could discuss with the OP, but it isn't one that the employer has to accept. And fairly so, I believe - as I have stated, there are options for caring and parental responsibilities, albeit they may not be palatable because they come without pay. But if doctors are to start issuing employees with sick notes because someone else is ill, then it makes a total mockery of the whole thing and undermines any confidence that employers can have in GP's to tell the truth. And when that happens, there will be a result that we all like a lot less - it is already the case that the government have set up their own "employers OH resource" to get people back to work and off the sick. It may be being branded as a support to employees to enable them to return to work - it is only a short step from changing the system to have a legally binding national service which assesses whether employees are unfit to work, managed and controlled by the government. It could be run by ATOS, perhaps??

[Inca]

Re: DR's Note and working

You have no idea of the copious times my GP wanted to sign me off sick.......in hindsight I can see why but going sick just wasn't an option because ,like everyone I had bills to pay and kid to support.
As I said,,my OH had to lose pay to take me to hospitals/therapies and after the accident him continuing to work just wasn't an option for us

[labman]

Re: DR's Note and working

it was a joke.

Sorry - sense of humour by-pass in Labman land this afternoon - you'd know why if saw our darling daughter!

I still stand by what I posted in post 16, that is why I asked if the 'May be fit to work' box had been ticked. We can comment on what has been said in the original post, which we've done, but that may, or may not tell the whole story. As CC said, "It is not immediately obvious why you should have obtained a "fit" (sic) note suggesting that you refrain from work because your partner has post-natal depression."

I agree 'Family Issues' is not a diagnosis. Equally I don't think we can surmise that that is saying the doctor is telling the OP to take time off work because someone else is sick. That would appear to be the case, and I suspect you are correct, but without a diagnosis we simply don't know what the doctor's true diagnosis was. The fit note is at best ill completed and at worst lays the doctor open to some very serious consequences. S/he would do well revisiting the guidelines on completing fit notes - I suspect the true diagnosis lies in whether or not that box was ticked, but again it is only my supposition.

[CleverClogs]

Re: DR's Note and working

What do you mean by this Inca?

Perhaps Inca was reminded of timeo Danaos et dona ferentes? (link)
Or not...

[CleverClogs]

Re: DR's Note and working

Eloise believes that it may be illegal to issue a fit (sic) note containing a partial or entire untruth and she may be correct, though the difficulty there would be one of establishing what the doctor believed to be true at the time s/he issued the note. There may be some significance in the detail that the couple also have an older child, as the OP's wife may have suffered from PMD before.

Even if it is not illegal, one would expect a medical practitioner who issued such a note to have a good and compelling reason to do so, lest s/he risked facing a "fitness to practise" panel.

I don't believe it is illegal because it isn't, and I didn't say it was

Let me remind you of what you actually wrote:

I am afraid the doctor has far exceeded his or her authority.

Your GP and their staff are idiots.

Your GP has ignored their responsibility to tell the truth about your medical fitness. That is against he law. You are not sick ad they know that... your GP is lying to them!

What does "That is against he law" denote, if not illegality? :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

However, I don't have to argue with you, Eloise. We're not married yet...

- it is unprofessional and subject to disciplinary (and financial) penalties.

I would prefer to say, as I did, that it was most curious.

As regards penalties, do you suppose those should apply to the practitioner or to his/her patient?

A fit note is a doctors opinion as to whether you are fit for work. "Family illness" is not a diagnosis and it is not a comment on your own fitness for work - and since the OP has told us that that was what the doctor has written, then the doctor has, in fact, told the OP to take time off sick because someone else is sick!

Yes - that is what is curious about it!

Not only is "family illness" not a diagnosis, it is not even a symptom or set of symptoms though it may, perhaps, suggest that the GP's native language was not English. "Family illness" may be a cause of stress, anxiety, depression or neurosis, but one might suppose that unless the condition was unusually severe, relief could be found from a short course of some suitable SSRI. (ie not Seroxat!)

if doctors are to start issuing employees with sick notes because someone else is ill, then it makes a total mockery of the whole thing and undermines any confidence that employers can have in GP's to tell the truth. And when that happens, there will be a result that we all like a lot less - it is already the case that the government have set up their own "employers OH resource" to get people back to work and off the sick. It may be being branded as a support to employees to enable them to return to work - it is only a short step from changing the system to have a legally binding national service which assesses whether employees are unfit to work, managed and controlled by the government. It could be run by ATOS, perhaps??

Whilst I would normally suggest that the above was an excessive over-reaction that almost compares to the predictions of total anarchy made by Thos. Moore if Tyndall's heretical Bible ever to be used in England, I rather doubt that it is.

[Eloise01]

Re: DR's Note and working

Being illegal and being unlawful are two different things - if you read my posts closely enough, as you seem to like doing, you will notice that I use both words appropriately in the context of the advice and comments. I did not say that anything was illegal - I said that something was against the law. Unfair dismissal is against the law - it is not illegal.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DR's Note and working

Purely out of interest (as your Dr seems to make his own rules up)...what is his diagnosis? My money is on 'stress'.
Have you worked for your employer for long?
Personally I think you are treading on dodgy ground,your employer knows you are not sick,,and also,a colicky child won't suddenly decide it doesn't have colic in 2 weeks.
How old is the baby??

That would be it, and it would also be impossible to disprove, doctors know that, and he'd know he wouldn't be at risk of any penalties, because he can legitimately say he saw the OP was under great stress as a result of his family situation.

I have been on both sides of the 'stress' sick note (whatever it's called these days, I haven't had one in ten years), i.e. I've always tended to disagree with the idea of long stretches of time off due to 'stress', but I also had a couple of 8 week stints in the past, on full pay I may add. :decision: This was 10 and 12 years ago when I was working for a City in$itution so no, I don't feel guilty at all and yes, I realise the impact of that sort of thing would be very different on a different type of employer. :Cry:

I know someone who managed 8 months off (7 of them on full pay) for post-natal depression, following the full 6 months maternity leave. She admitted to me to having exaggerated the occasional symptom although her main aim wasn't really to take advantage of her employer (she was a colleague of mine, so employer was the same major international inve$tment bank), she just couldn't bear to be parted from the baby, because she'd previously had 6 miscarriages and thought she'd never be able to have a baby. She never went back to work after she was made redundant after the 8th month, and became a stay at home mum with a total of 3 kids.

Things are never black and white.