What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on your

[swinster]

Hi All,


My partner has been working for her firm for 20+ years and now they are saying that she need to take out class 1 business insurance on her own car insurance - OR FACE A DISCIPLINARY! As I'm the one who organises the finances, I have taken offence to this request and feel that it is unfair on many levels.


The firm is NOT offering to pay the difference (well they are, but you must pay it back) and their Union (UNISON) have even agreed to this - which has caused a bit of an uproar!


Assuming that my partner is only a named driver on MY insurance - why should her firm force ME to pay? They are also saying that insurance has to be in her name, which could cost a huge amount of money.


She does not conduct any business trips for her firm from her place of work, but she has been request to attend training courses and meetings in a different location to where you generally goes to work. I usually give her a lift to these locations, but as she works nights, these are single trips from home and back.


Surely this can't be done aprt way through a employment?

Chris

[ostell]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

Does she get paid an allowance for using the car? If she does then it is business use and therefore requires business insurance. If there was a claim and it could be shown that it was being used for business then the claim would be declined.

And normally business class is defined as for use by the insured in person, hence the need for a separate policy.

[mystery1]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

Is it a term of employment that she must have a driving license ?

M1

[swinster]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

Does she get paid an allowance for using the car? If she does then it is business use and therefore requires business insurance. If there was a claim and it could be shown that it was being used for business then the claim would be declined.

And normally business class is defined as for use by the insured in person, hence the need for a separate policy.

I should have said that at this present time she has never claimed expenses for personal car.use. of douse, if we did take out business onstage and if she made any tripsfor her work in her car,then she would be entitled to claim. However,this is not thee point I was trying to make.

She does require a driving licence as part of her employment as she uses company vehicles to take tenants out, but she ha never be requested to have business insurance for her own vehicle.

[leclerc]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

Hang on a minute, she does not OWN a car so has she stated that to the company?

She is on YOUR insurance but that does not mean that she owns her own car.

[Eloise01]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

Technically, if a car is used for business (anything other than commuting to a normal place of work) then it should be insured as such. On that basis the employer is legally obliged to ensure that employees using private vehicles for any business purpose are properly insured - and the union have no say in refusing this since it is a requirement. However, if she never uses a private vehicle for any business purpose other than commuting to her normal place of work, then I cannot see how they can force her to be insured for something she never does. The policy does not apply to you because you are not employed by them - you are dropping someone off at a place, and to that extent, you could be the neighbour, a colleague, or a taxi driver. Has she actually pointed out the fact that she does not drive a car for work purposes to the employer?

Incidentally, it may depend on the level of cover that people have, but my business insurance didn't cost anything extra (and I know other people have told me the same thing, so it isn't just my insurers) on top of my normal premium - I just had to inform them that the vehicle was used for business travel.

[Sapphire]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

I declare my car as going back and forth to work plus sometimes visiting the odd customer, my insurance hasn't increased either.

[swinster]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

It's not so much about the additional cost or insurance, it is more about the reason NOT to use the personal car for business purposes. Whilst it is true that you can claim for mileage, I don't feel it is right that this is being forced.

For my work, we drive all over the country. Several of my collogues have business insurance and they chose to drive thier cars to other locations for work because they find it convenient. I personally drive to work and ensure that work provides me with transportation in order that I can get to the places I need to be. However, I am not FORCED into getting business class insurance. I don't have it, therefore I don't drive for work.

The same would be true of my partner in that she would not use the car for work purposes. However, she is being forced and faces disciplinary action is she fails to comply - this is the bit I feel is completely unjustified, immoral, and unfair.

For the record, I do indeed own the car.

[shell]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

Check out business insurance. My O/H has it and it is actually cheaper with business insurance added than his normal fully comp.

[Eloise01]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

It's not so much about the additional cost or insurance, it is more about the reason NOT to use the personal car for business purposes. Whilst it is true that you can claim for mileage, I don't feel it is right that this is being forced.

For my work, we drive all over the country. Several of my collogues have business insurance and they chose to drive thier cars to other locations for work because they find it convenient. I personally drive to work and ensure that work provides me with transportation in order that I can get to the places I need to be. However, I am not FORCED into getting business class insurance. I don't have it, therefore I don't drive for work.

The same would be true of my partner in that she would not use the car for work purposes. However, she is being forced and faces disciplinary action is she fails to comply - this is the bit I feel is completely unjustified, immoral, and unfair.

For the record, I do indeed own the car.

I think that you are missing two points. The first is that this is her employer and not your employer - so what you or your employer may do is irrelevant, and (b) you have failed to answer the question as to whether you have actually told the employer that she has no car and does not ever use a private vehicle for work purposes. The occupational requirement, as you have said it, is that she has a driving licence - you do not insure a driving licence, you insure the car. If she isn't using one there isn't anything to insure. So has she told the employer that there is nothing to insure?

Although, if there is no additional cost, one might hazard the question as to what it is about? If there were no cost, would you be suggesting that she risk a disciplinary over a principle?

[swinster]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

I think that you are missing two points. The first is that this is her employer and not your employer - so what you or your employer may do is irrelevant,

Not quite, I was merely making an observation.

and (b) you have failed to answer the question as to whether you have actually told the employer that she has no car and does not ever use a private vehicle for work purposes.

This will be done

The occupational requirement, as you have said it, is that she has a driving licence - you do not insure a driving licence, you insure the car. If she isn't using one there isn't anything to insure. So has she told the employer that there is nothing to insure?

So, I return to the original question - is it right, proper, moral or ultimately legal for an employer to unilaterally enforce such a policy decision change on its employees?

Although, if there is no additional cost, one might hazard the question as to what it is about? If there were no cost, would you be suggesting that she risk a disciplinary over a principle?

Principle is a strong point that should not be overlooked. What starts with such an enforcement like this - requests that employees change there own personal circumstance to fit the employers will, end in further use of the employees property for company use. Other employees in this firm are being asked that they use their cars for move tenants. My partner and her colleagues work for a care association, caring for people with mental health issues. This can and do get broken and the firm has already stated that no cost will be covered. This is a very slippery slope we tread.

[Eloise01]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

So, I return to the original question - is it right, proper, moral or ultimately legal for an employer to unilaterally enforce such a policy decision change on its employees?
.

I think I already answered this - yes it is and it was always wrong of them to not do so. And a union collective bargain is binding on the entire workforce. But you cannot force someone to have business insurance if they do not use a vehicle for work, and as you have said, that is a question that you haven't asked.

[scoobydoo]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

from an employers point of view we would be breaching our H&S policy if an employee used their own car for work ( even on an odd occasion) without business insurance - because if they were in an accident and this was discovered I believe it could invalidate the insurance cover. So we would be protecting the employee as well.

[Eloise01]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

from an employers point of view we would be breaching our H&S policy if an employee used their own car for work ( even on an odd occasion) without business insurance - because if they were in an accident and this was discovered I believe it could invalidate the insurance cover. So we would be protecting the employee as well.

That's correct, and why an employer is required to ensure that people driving their own vehicles must suitably insure them.

[enquirer]

Re: What are the legalities of being forced to take out Business Class insurance on y

Idle curiosity. Has the employer stipulated which insurance company should be used?

In any event, if business insurance is taken out, then presumably it will be tax deductible.