Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

[MissFM]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

Possibly.


I had not supposed that there was any factual inaccuracy in the data presented.I do not believe, however, that there is a direct causal link between the alleged bullying incident(s) and Tigs being selected for redundancy.

What evidence do you have for this belief?


One would need proof of direct input (by the alleged bully or by a close friend thereof) into the redundancy selection procedure.

And what form would that proof take? (this is what people need to know)

[MissFM]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

I'm bumping this up probably for Eloise01 - if you're willing to say - or if there is anyone else who actually knows the answer - please could you tell us what evidence would be needed to prove workplace bullying at a tribunal, or in court?

[Inca]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

I'm bumping this up probably for Eloise01 - if you're willing to say - or if there is anyone else who actually knows the answer - please could you tell us what evidence would be needed to prove workplace bullying at a tribunal, or in court?

No point bumping it to Eloise,,see page 1 of this thread..................that boat has sailed

[MissFM]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

Oh well - maybe there are other generous souls on here who will provide an answer for the general good - let's see ( I guess, from your position, Inca, that the answer will be no - but there's no harm in trying)

[Inca]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

I wouldn't have a clue what to say MissFM,,I know zilch about it.4

[Tigs]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

Dear MissFM and CleverClogs

Thank you all for discussing my work issue and for raising key learning points for me. This all arose from my post yesterday when I probably over reacted to what I perceived to be unhelpful comments by an important member of this forum. I genuinely apologise to the member concerned. I have found the comments of CleverClogs, MissFM and Bluebottle to be extremely helpful and insightful.

I would echo MissFM's final question as follows (in blue font below):-

(One would need proof of direct input (by the alleged bully or by a close friend thereof) into the redundancy selection procedure).

And what form would that proof take? (this is what people need to know)

I would be grateful for any steer please on this particulet point.

[Eloise01]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

I'm bumping this up probably for Eloise01 - if you're willing to say - or if there is anyone else who actually knows the answer - please could you tell us what evidence would be needed to prove workplace bullying at a tribunal, or in court?

"People" have had the answer - twice. "People" didn't like either answer. Evidence cannot be manufactured and evidence either exists or it does not. Asking what evidence is necessary is no different than me asking you how long this piece of string in my hand is. The OP has already stated that their only evidence is a "belief" - that does not count as evidence. On that basis they were given sound legal advice as to how to construct an argument which has legal merit. They were exceptionally insulting about that advice and me personally - and in fact made it clear that I have "no right" to be posting on this site at all. I will waste no further time on this matter.

[wales01man]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

I dont think many bullies leave an evidence trail i would think it becomes a she said this she said that case with no tangible evidence it must be fairly easy to convince a doctor your suffering from stress on the web there are plenty of sites with stress and depression questionaires i could in less than an hour produce a list of symptoms of stress same as i could obtain all the symptoms of most illnesses that until tests were carried out would probably be accepted at face value.
Sorry if this upsets ome but many will agree

[MissFM]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

"People" have had the answer - twice. "People" didn't like either answer. Evidence cannot be manufactured and evidence either exists or it does not. Asking what evidence is necessary is no different than me asking you how long this piece of string in my hand is. The OP has already stated that their only evidence is a "belief" - that does not count as evidence. On that basis they were given sound legal advice as to how to construct an argument which has legal merit. They were exceptionally insulting about that advice and me personally - and in fact made it clear that I have "no right" to be posting on this site at all. I will waste no further time on this matter.

Yes - of course you gave sound legal advice - you would not give less. The answer needed, though, which I believe would help very many people other than the OP, is what evidence is actually needed to PROVE bullying. It does seem extremely hard to get that proof and no-one here seems to know what is needed.

[wales01man]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

As i said in my post bullies dont very often leave an evidence trail phsical bullies dont smack you in the mouth in front of witnesses very often same with verbals i think

[MissFM]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

As i said in my post bullies dont very often leave an evidence trail phsical bullies dont smack you in the mouth in front of witnesses very often same with verbals i think

So how would you suggest dealing with them? Because they must be stopped...

[bluebottle]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

Yes - of course you gave sound legal advice - you would not give less. The answer needed, though, which I believe would help very many people other than the OP, is what evidence is actually needed to PROVE bullying. It does seem extremely hard to get that proof and no-one here seems to know what is needed.

I think you will find it depends very much on what form the bullying takes. Some bullying can be very subtle, whilst other bullying can be very "in your face". Either way, bullies are very insecure people. Take a look on Tim Field's website BullyingOnline.

[MissFM]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

Thanks BB - and it's a brilliant site - but still need clear instruction as to how to evidence it and get redress...

[wales01man]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

So how would you suggest dealing with them? Because they must be stopped...
I know how i would stop a bully who was dishing it out physically or verbally but then im not the same as others.In many cases unless you are prepared to stand ut to the bullies and make sure they know you will not tolerate it without evidence which i think would be hard to obtain there are probably vey few easy answers.
There will always be bullies at work at school or anywhere people are together its a human thing until there is a way to stamp it out it will continue the one thing we can all agree on is that bullies are cowards

[bluebottle]

Re: Unfairly and selectively marked for redundancy following complaint about bullying

At present, there appears to be little incentive for employers to crack down on workplace bullying. In fact, the present government, pandering, as always, to the Raving Right of the Conservative Party, hard right wing employers and think tanks, is doing more to encourage it with their demolition of employment rights than crackdown on it. Workplace bullying costs the British economy £26 billion per year. Just think what could be done with that money if there was a really tough crackdown on workplace bullying.

In answer to MissFM's question, keeping a diary of incidents of bullying is something that can be done. This is the advice given by police forces to those suffering anti-social behaviour and it provides a chronological record of such behaviour. Bullying is anti-social behaviour and should be treated as such.