self employment - owed money - ltd company

[brummie]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

i agree tutts, but it will be hard to prove the debt if the paperwork is not in place.
earlier in the thread i asked if the industry was construction, which falls under the CIS tax scheme. in my experience, whenever you issue an invoice you issue for the total minus your tax. now if you have an agreed price and invoice that amount, and then the contractor fails to pay the full invoiced amount, i keep the original invoice total and declare to the revenue the outstanding or owed amount as being disputed or bad debt. that way, the revenue are aware that you are in dispute for the amount and there is a paper-trail.
IMHO they will wind up, start again (if not already in place) and offer WTD more work, as he seems to have been with them for a long time and his services are needed for them to operate. it stinks, i know, but i really don't think he will see any of the money. if they are clever, and it sounds like they are, then they don't give a monkey's cuss about the revenue, Vat, wholesale suppliers or sub-contractors.
my industry is rife with it and it's happening all the time.

[brummie]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

i also agree with walesman's comment about the liquidators. i was in a similar situation and the liquidator told me i was well down the line, and not to bother him again as he had me on file and would contact me with any news of my claim. i never heard from him again....

[TUTTSI]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

I do not agree this person that is owed a substantial amount should definitely attend the creditors meeting so that he can ask questions.

I do the bookkeeping for builders so I do know how this works.

i also agree with walesman's comment about the liquidators. i was in a similar situation and the liquidator told me i was well down the line, and not to bother him again as he had me on file and would contact me with any news of my claim. i never heard from him again....

[brummie]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

i agree, tutts, the he should fight his corner to the max to get his money, and go to the meeting fore-armed with as much evidence that he can produce, including invoices and letters/emails etc to prove his stake. with luck he will get some money, but only after her majesty takes the lion-share, and judging by what i have read there won't be enough in the kitty to cover that, and the liquidators fees. the money has been milked from the company and it's dry.

[wales01man]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

Advice i have just been given by my accountant,
Check companies house and download their last set of accounts should show the companies assets etc dont cost much would save the hassle of waiting to find out if there is any chance of a payout would bet any assets have gone and the directors took a good pay packet this is how these people work new companies same business they get rich others get poor

[TUTTSI]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

It is likely that there is still money owed to the company and of course the assets for what they are worth as we dont know there could be a car(s). Now the best way is for this poster to obtain a full set of accounts from companies house and lets look at the balance sheet as this would reveal what has previously been declared by way of assets. Of course these days it may only be a limited information on the balance sheet but it would reveal the total of assets figure at the last accounts.

Now when I worked for a company as a self employed person and the company went into liquidation I was able to claim redundancy. The reason for this my old man found that in my service agreement they dictated when I had to work so it may be wise for the poster to check his agreement to see if he can claim any redundancy. For instance if he had to work certain hours and he had to be available that could render him as employed as far as redundancy is concerned. I claimed this through the liquidator who sent me the relevant forms after I sent them a copy of my service agreement. What ever money he receives if any will help in some way.

i agree, tutts, the he should fight his corner to the max to get his money, and go to the meeting fore-armed with as much evidence that he can produce, including invoices and letters/emails etc to prove his stake. with luck he will get some money, but only after her majesty takes the lion-share, and judging by what i have read there won't be enough in the kitty to cover that, and the liquidators fees. the money has been milked from the company and it's dry.

[TUTTSI]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

Lol we posted the same thing at the same time two great minds work alike.

Advice i have just been given by my accountant,
Check companies house and download their last set of accounts should show the companies assets etc dont cost much would save the hassle of waiting to find out if there is any chance of a payout would bet any assets have gone and the directors took a good pay packet this is how these people work new companies same business they get rich others get poor

[enquirer]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

If they have any serious assets that have mysteriously been transferred to another company, a creditor can apply to the court for the change of ownership to be reversed, thus putting the asset back in the firing line. Given that we are talking about Ł40,000, it might be worth a punt.

In any event, I would be inclined to file a complaint with Companies House, pointing out that they have previous for this. It might put a spoke in their wheel later on.

[brummie]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

Enquirer's point is a good one, as it may be similar to my freind's recent case. The chain of contractors went to about five, and the whole job went into dispute. The main contractor refused to release any payment. This had a knock-on down the chain, and as the monies were still about he claimed against the asset, along with another asset from a totally un-related job. The question of the 40k seems to go back over 12 years, and if i'm right over numerous ltd companies. WTD, can you verify this? Trying to sue a dissolved company from 12 years ago is a tall order...

Whattodo....

Have these muppets offered you any more work, or are you working for them for another listed company?

Tutts...

If it is the construction industry, then redundancy will only come into play if the poster was working for them on the cards, in my opinion. Even then, they would probably offer a week in every year of employment, plus a bit of holiday. If i am right in what i am reading then the poster is trading as self employed limited. Therfore it would be his own responsibility to make arrangements for his loss of income or employment....

[whattodo1212]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

Thanks all, lot of food for thought

They want me to stay on - Im the only one who can get any company to the heights they want - so cannot burn bridges but next negotiation will include tougher terms - burnt once etc

They have wound up before and moved to another name, with me before and after, same job just different name. They have another company they are going to use but not for same as their person on the other end is effectively saying no more, go away.

Whilst the contract states we are self employed - they do dictate number of hrs expected, expect me to be around 24/7, previous colleagues have challenged this

IT btw, not construction,

Ideally, we want to stay amenable as we work for other companies of theirs without pay issues (yet) but the ice is very very thin, obviously we have more chance being friendly than not.

I have got proof of debt forms- better to send 1 each ( 2 of us were working) or both as 1?

IS it ever a good idea to ask the court to reopen a dissolved company? I do think they have negative assets etc and they are closing their premises, but luckily, their school/college friends are protected with employment law - nice that eh:2w32gd1:

[bedlington83]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

Whilst the contract states we are self employed

Sorry, I'm confused. I thought you worked for them via your own limited company. If so, the contract should be between your limited company and their company. Your employment status with your own company is no concern of the dodgy company. If there is a contract between you personally and the dodgy company then its quite possible that it is a contract of employment, regardless of what it says in respect of self-employment.

[wales01man]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

Gets more complicated by the day im thinking now is time to get legal advice from an expert if they want you to work for the new company this must mean there is a market for their product/service the one you provide is ther a way you can sel the service or product without them?a question we all ask is what is it you do someone on here may be able to point you to a work source so you can rid yourself of these people who it appears want to dump on you from a great height then ask you to clean up then come bact to them so they can exploit your talents whatever the decision is yours hope its the right one after all you know these people,
Good luck

[TUTTSI]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

You should also request from the liquidators a form for you to obtain redundancy this will at least give you some money. I was self employed and still got redundancy from the government due to the way my service agreement was written. Trust me there is provision for this if you have to be available 24/7 according to your contract then that is perfect.

Then speak to your accountant about sorting out the bad debt on your accounts this could substantially reduce any tax you may have had to pay this coming January.

I just hope that if you continue with these people that they will not scam you further.

Thanks all, lot of food for thought

They want me to stay on - Im the only one who can get any company to the heights they want - so cannot burn bridges but next negotiation will include tougher terms - burnt once etc

They have wound up before and moved to another name, with me before and after, same job just different name. They have another company they are going to use but not for same as their person on the other end is effectively saying no more, go away.

Whilst the contract states we are self employed - they do dictate number of hrs expected, expect me to be around 24/7, previous colleagues have challenged this

IT btw, not construction,

Ideally, we want to stay amenable as we work for other companies of theirs without pay issues (yet) but the ice is very very thin, obviously we have more chance being friendly than not.

I have got proof of debt forms- better to send 1 each ( 2 of us were working) or both as 1?

IS it ever a good idea to ask the court to reopen a dissolved company? I do think they have negative assets etc and they are closing their premises, but luckily, their school/college friends are protected with employment law - nice that eh:2w32gd1:

[brummie]

Re: self employment - owed money - ltd company

ok....i have no knowledge of employment redundancy other than construction, so will butt-out on that point. i would definately follow tuttsi's advice on that one.
i would say that if you were invoicing them as one invoice, then your claim would need to be as one, if i make sense! what is distributed once the invoice is paid would be of no interest to a judge, say, as the debt is against the issued invoice.
these people are obviously at a loss if you were to leave, and need you on-board. i would say that puts you at an advantage, but not so sure they would be so amicable if you were to go down the legal route. this is obviously an important income to you which you feel you cannot lose, so i think you need to negotiate a re-payment structure with them. the fact that they need you means you have an upper-hand, in my opinion, and could "drive" the negotiations in your favour. i do think that you need to be very strong with them, and put in place a deal that is right for you, so that you not only re-coupe your money but protect against any future debt....