suspended

[bluebottle]

Re: suspended

Bluebottle your post actually brought a smile to my face - you have summed it up perfectly, the woman in question has a bit of a reputation in tribunals, and is the least discreet person I know!

I have considered resigning and going for contructive dismissal, but I think that was my immediate knee jerk reaction to the slap in the face this has been.

What further muddies the waters is my boss's wife is also in HR, and up until a few years ago was a close friend, so there is a very incestuous set up as you can appeciate!

My employer has made a habit of employing freinds, it has always assured him of loyalty and gratitude; I think he believes he has us all over a barrel...

As Teaboy says, your employer is almost certainly in breach of the Employment Rights Act, which could impact on them if this goes to an ET as well as cause them to suffer loss of reputation. This Rent-A-Bully had no business coming to your home - what on earth did your employer think they were doing?

One argument you could fire at Rent-A-Bully is "What would you have me do with a dog that was obviously in distress, call the RSPCA and the police and really humiliate your client's daughter and her customer?" If Rent-A-Bully tries to say there was a witness, that is not enough. Ask if there was a second independent witness. In my experience, HR consultants' knowledge of the rules and laws of evidence are non-existent - if any have a clue, you can count them on the finger of one hand, if that.

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended

As Teaboy says, your employer is almost certainly in breach of the Employment Rights Act, which could impact on them if this goes to an ET as well as cause them to suffer loss of reputation. This Rent-A-Bully had no business coming to your home - what on earth did your employer think they were doing?

One argument you could fire at Rent-A-Bully is "What would you have me do with a dog that was obviously in distress, call the RSPCA and the police and really humiliate your client's daughter and her customer?" If Rent-A-Bully tries to say there was a witness, that is not enough. Ask if there was a second independent witness. In my experience, HR consultants' knowledge of the rules and laws of evidence are non-existent - if any have a clue, you can count them on the finger of one hand, if that.

Also likely in breach of the working time directive, with regards to the holidays issue too. But need confirmation of days and hours per week to know for sure.

It wold be worth contacting the RSPCA too as am sure they will be more then interested to hear how you have been treated by your employer for potentially saving this dogs life. There involvment would no doubt put pressure on your employer that he did not expect. Police will deal with harassment side of things, but i don't think it amounts to that yet.

[leclerc]

Re: suspended

Are you being disciplined for going out of the shop leaving it unattended or were other staff members present?
Did any member of the public bring the distress of the dog to your attention(it could always be said even if nobody did say that )?
Are you suspended on FULL pay, as the letter should have stated this?
I am surprised that you did not have an investigatory meeting prior to suspension because that would usually be the norm, ie you are interviewed and made aware what you are being accused of. It sound a little bit like the writer Kaftka's book "The Trial" where you are accused of something which you are not told about.

[Shadowcat]

Re: suspended

Hi thbb and welcome. Reading swiftly though the thread, definitely need to know firstly what this is for. HR think the world revolves around their la-la employment law and not that of the real world therefore challenges need to be made to maybe encourage them to seek further training. Nothing like a financial challenge to make a company see the error of their ways.

Regarding this situation, do everything in writing due to leaving an easy and uncomplicated paper trail for a tribunal to read through.

No written contract is not a problem, the lack of written conditions works as a disadvantage as much to a company as to the employee - again, something HR departments seem to get wrong, they think they are protected by law more than you - wrong.

They are breaching Employment Law already so I suggest they start towing the line.

Meanwhile, are you on pay? We need to address the immediate problems that this will create if you are not.

[thbb]

Re: suspended

Thanks for all your replies, I have been up all night writing and rewriting resignation letters, haven't sent them though, it has been quite theraputic getting it off my chest.

To answer your questions

Sorry holiday is 28 days including bank holidays, my error, shouldn't type angry, sorry.

I don't work in the shop, we are in the factory unit across the way, because it was hot the cargo doors were up which was how we were able to here the dog crying, and we could see it in the van trying to scrabble out of the window.

We don't have an employee handbook, or a notice anywhere of company proceedures.

Yes I am suspended on full pay, but with no warning and no reason given.

I have emailed ACAS, am waiting on their reply, have also emailed an employment solicitor via a recommendation from my daughter in law.

A couple of years ago the daughter tried to get rid of a member of staff by saying she saw this woman assault another member, I was in the office when it happened, the woman tripped over her handbag strap and fell onto the girl, this woman was summoned to a disciplinary and given a formal warning, despite no charge made, as well as the fact it never happened, go figure!

Thank you sincerely all of you for taking the time to give me all this info, really appreciated.

[Shadowcat]

Re: suspended

Do not resign.

Just simply ask for the reasons for this suspension. Then sit back and enjoy the break from work. You hold all the cards.

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended

Exactly as shadow says. In all honestly, resigning now may well put you in a much weaker position as claiming constructive dismissal is a royal pain in the arse to win at tribunal. So you better off letting them hang themselves and claiming unfair dismissal if they do dismiss you. Though with our help on here it will not likely come to that, unless of course your employer is really dumb.

[thbb]

Re: suspended

He isn't stupid, just worked from the back by the dominant females in the pack

Are you saying if I ask him the reason he suspended me he is obliged in employment law to tell me?

Also, can I refuse to go through his mouthpiece, she isn't my HR officer and doesn't work in the company, she is merely working off a debt by being a consultant!
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
PS

I have a line manager at work who wasn't made aware of my suspension until I texted him last night, I haven't heard anything back from him, probably been told not to, but I know he is aware now because a friend that works with me told him last night, he SAID he knows nothing about it...

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended

Yes you have to right to know what you are being accused off. He is your employer not your collegue therefore you are allowed to contact him in a formal manner. Write formal letter requesting to know why you have been suspended and what allegations have been made against you. Informing them that you are taking employment advise on the issue and that he is obliged to inform you of the reason for suspension and what allegations if any have been made.

[Shadowcat]

Re: suspended

Absolutely 110% you are entitled to know. If you were in high court accused of a crime you would need to know what that crime is to defend yourself, same principle applies to employment law - law being the operative word.

Where did he find this monkey? If he wants to get rid of employees he should at least brush up on the law. Redundancy avoidance tactics are infamous, not that I'm implying anything of the kind but....just saying.

You'll find the strength to see this situation for what it is on here thbb, don't worry and put your own health at risk, slowly slowly catchy monkey and just go with the flow, at all times sticking to the letter of the law for your part, you're onto a winner then.

So absolutely you need to know, if he drags his feet telling you it's his financial loss, he can pay you for his insistance on keeping you waiting for an answer. How strange, but no problem on your part.

[thbb]

Re: suspended

That's great thanks, any advice on preferring not to go through his 'Consultant'?

[Shadowcat]

Re: suspended

Oh and yes - you continue to ask him because your contract (implied is as good as written) is with him. Buck stops with him, doesn't matter if he hires an army of consultants, it is you and him who have the agreement.

[Shadowcat]

Re: suspended

An example of Disciplinary Terms written into a contract would be:

When the Company believes an employee has committed a discipline offence, Company will ensure that the matter is dealt with promptly and fairly in accordance with natural justice.

If a contract is an implied one, i.e. not written down and signed, the above will still apply under Employment Law. I am not going to quote act section numbers at this stage as your first approach should be 'informal', that is just to ask in a non-defensive way for a full written explanation as to why this action has been brought about by the company. Ask to receive a reply within a time frame or, if you choose, leave it open ended about a reply time-frame.

[thbb]

Re: suspended

Fantastic, thanks very much, if I compose a letter, could I copy and paste it on here before I send it, I want to get it right!

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended

That's great thanks, any advice on preferring not to go through his 'Consultant'?

You have no contract with this consultant your therefore are not legally bound to discuss, communicate or even acknowledge them as a party to your employment contract - They basically have no legal rights or power over you. Nor are you legally bound to do what they say either, therefore their is nothing stopping you contacting your employer or colleagues, though it would be best to not contact colleagues and only communicate directly with the employer - Make it clear in your letter to the employer that you are not bound to and do not acknowlegde, consider or have to obide by the the damands set fourth by a third party company, who is not a party to your employment contract, especially when there is not a contract between the third party company and yourself (meaning you). As such you will deem any further contact from said third party company as harassment in breach of the protection from harassment act 1997 and you also deem the disclosure of your data to said third party as a breach of the data protection act 1998.

Also there is only implied license under english common law for a person to visit my property without prior appointment, that being the postman and person(s) asking for directions. The third party did not seek license from myself to visit me on my property by seeking prior appointment, therefore by doing so without prior appointment, they committed an act of tort of trespass. i therefore would like to make it clear that what ever license they thought they had that allowed them to visit me on my property is now revoked, and if they come to my property again without agreeing an appointment with myself. Which as i do not acknowledge them, i therefore have no intention of making such appointment, i may being legal proceedings against them for tort of trespass and harassment.



The only person you should be communicating with is the employer himself, and not through a third party who is not a party to your employment contract or whom you have no business or association with yourself.

I know the content of the first 2 paragrapths above seem a bit heavy, but trust me it all supports you, meaning it makes it clear to your employer that they are really up against it now. And hopefully they will back down.