Can you be self employed and also an employee?

[jacknap]

As a Foster Carers working for the Local Council we are all classed as 'self employed'. However, we are only allowed to work for the council. We are not allowed to work for any other agency or any other council. In order to work else where we have to derigister with the council etc. The Council decides the amount of work we do and how much we get paid. The council also pays for and provides training. As far as I understand the law if the council has so much control over our work and we only work for the council then this establishes a Employer/Employee relationship. Has an employer/employee relationship been established in these circumstances?

[labman]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

Yes you can. Believe it or not, one of the most common cases of this is a vicar who is classed as a self-employed employee for tax purposes.

[Sapphire]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

We have our own business, which effectively makes us 'self employed' but in fact we are classed as 'employed' by our own company. Basically it means that we don't pay tax, but the company pays Corporation Tax which covers our tax bills.
All very confusing to me, but the accountant assures me all is ok.

[charitynjw]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

Do you have a contract of service, or a contract for services?

This would be the probable starting point for an Employment Tribunal, & would involve a complex examination of your employment status.

One of the factors, however, is how you pay tax, & HMRC normally treat carers, who are paid by a LA, as self-employed

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/individuals/foster-carers.htm

[postggj]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

i will be corrected if incorrect but the difference between an employee and self employed
is a

CONTRACT OF EMPLOYMENT

[charitynjw]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

Hi Keith,

A written contract of employment is certainly advisable, but it is not a requirement in law.

A Statement of Employment Particulars is, however, a statutory duty on the employer, & must be supplied within 2 months of starting.

[postggj]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

Ime Now Confused

What Is A Statement Of Employment Particulars Other Than A Contract Of Employment ???

[charitynjw]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

Hi Keith,

This explains it

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ns/DG_10027905

[postggj]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

i understand what you are saying

you can have an implied contract of employment but particulars have to be given within two months

that would be an employee hand book

sorry for being a pain, (my head is starting to hurt)

[charitynjw]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

Apologies for all the links, Keith!! (but it's far more eloquent than me, lol!)

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ions/DG_175704

[postggj]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

it states that an employee is a person who has a contract of employment

self employed do not as they can be classed for instance as a sole trader

the terms mentioned are statutory minimum terms which must be included in any employee hand book

a full contract of employment would include say, paid meal relief or full pay while sick

the point i am making is

be it a full contract of employment that the employeer and the employee sign, or an employee just being given a hand book

they are both legally binding documents which must contain the minimum statutory terms

i think we have now come full circle

ill shut up now

thanks for the debate

head hurts

[mariefab]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

As far as I know, several attempts to establish a foster carer as an employee or worker have failed; on the grounds that the relationship between the carer and the council are covered by statute rather than contract.

See the most recent below.

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT...0_10_2401.html

[WendyB]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

Sapph, if you run your own company, I think that if it is a Ltd co, then you are not technically self employed, as directors of the company you are employed by the company, which is in itself a separate legal entity. The reason you do not pay tax is probably because wages are taken as dividends instead of wages, which then means that the company pays the tax by way of Corporation tax rather than the individual paying PAYE.
If you are a sole trader or partnership, then you would be self employed.

[postggj]

Re: Can you be self employed and also an employee?

Written statement of the main terms and conditions of employment

All employees, regardless of the number of hours they work per week, are entitled to receive a written statement from their employer, within two months of starting work. The statement describes the main terms of the contract of employment.
The statement must give details about:-

• job title
• wages
• hours of work
• holiday entitlement
• sick pay
• pension schemes
• notice
• grievance, dismissal and disciplinary procedure.