Changes to job description and contract after TUPE question.

[ULA]

In a Tribunal setting what will be looked at is whether the role itself has disappeared.

[UKTECH]

I have emails and call records to show it hasnt, since ive been employed my role, responsibilities and duites have only grown

[ULA]

Then if you are made redundant and want to bring and ET claim you will have to use that evidence to support your claim.

[UKTECH]

How can they show the role has disappeared? How can I show it hasnt? My role has grown since I began employment as you can imagine

[ULA]

I am not your employer so I cannot say how they can prove that your role has disappeared or been absorbed into other roles, however that is one of the things they would need to defend if a claim was brought.

You would need to prove that your role was either or a combination of:

1. Not redundant, there was still a need for that role to continue.
2. The process followed was not fair or reasonable
3. That if the role is going to an MSP then it is a TUPE transfer and you should move to that organisation

[UKTECH]

Is role erosion a defence for myself if they are giving my duities to other staff as a way to say my role isn't needed?

[UKTECH]

If I compare my role now to the role when I started 15 years ago my workload has definitely increased it would be hard to prove otherwise could I use this as my defence?

[ULA]

Response to post #51

If an individual's role is absorbed by other members of staff and they can manage without a dedicated person undertaking the role, then an employer can argue legitimately that this is a redundancy situation. However this would be in a situation where the role has diminished or ceased to exist.

Response to post #52

One of the points that your employer will have to prove is that the need for the role has diminished or disappeared. If you can prove otherwise then that can form part of your defence.


Are they still planning on getting the duties of your role carried out by an MSP? In which case there is the possibility of TUPE which is what my initial understanding, from the early part of your thread, was happening to your role.

[UKTECH]

On my appointment in 2010 it was rare for primary schools to have a full time it technician on site, other schools like said have a technician on site one day a week and it support remotely It has always been possible to outsource it support at the time of my employment in 2010 so I cant see how that is relevant?

It has also been possible to manage desktop/laptops in bulk again why is this relevant?

My job and role has only grown since 2010 not diminished a lot of my responsibilities and duties aren't even on my job description which isnt unsurprising seen as it is in correct. The onus is on the employer to keep upto date records of employees. I didn't even know my job description had been changed! the phone calls and email logs show a need for IT support. How can this be disputed?

The school have acknowledged its the wrong job description yet are still using it to show a reduced need.

A fair assessment of my day to day role and responsibilities hasn't been presented to the MSR committee. How could it be when no one knows what my job actually entails or what I am responsible for and even if they did know how can this be compared to anytime in the past?

Even if there workload assessment is correct, its impossible to compare the same workload assessment to anytime over the past 15 years and therefore cant show a reduction in need.

Since as they dont have my original job description i was appointed and agreed to, there is no way to compare my role on my appointment to today.

How can they show my role has diminished when they cant show there was ever a need for my role becuase they dont have my original job description, duities or responsibilities?

[ULA]

I appreciate all you have said in your last post however my point at the end of post #53 still needs clarification.

Are they still planning on getting the duties of your role carried out by an MSP going forward? In which case there is the possibility of TUPE which is what my initial understanding, from the early part of your thread, was happening to your role.

Just to let you know I am logging off now and may not be back on the forum until after the weekend.

[UKTECH]

Thanks for your reply, they have gone quiet on that point.

[UKTECH]

Please could I have your opinion on post 54 please when you have time ULA thankyou

[ULA]

I do not have an opinion on your post as it is a number of statements from your perspective when I have nothing to review it against in terms of understanding the exact reason your employer is saying your role is redundant.

You started your thread with it being a TUPE and it now appears to be on the basis of a diminished role.

If you are undergoing a redundancy consultation process, then your employer should be identifying why your role is at risk of redundancy and demonstrate how this decision has been reached. They should also be communicating in writing that your role is at risk and why, set out the consultation process, what if any suitable alternative positions there are you could apply for and asking you for suggestions to avoid your role being made redundant. In addition, the written communication should detail that in the event that the final decision is to make you redundant how your termination package will be calculated.

[UKTECH]

Hi,
I was TUPEd from a local council school to a trust and they now making me redundant.

The trust only want to pay me statutory redundancy but the council policy for redundancy in schools in statutory redundancy but the weekly pay is uncapped.

Am I entitled to the uncapped calculation as part of TUPE regulations?

Nothing is menetioned in my contract about redundancy payments but my contract has this section

Collective agreements and other terms and conditions of employment at national and /or local level
In addition to the terms and conditions specified in this document, the conditions applicable to your post will be in accordance with those prescribed by the national joint council for local government services, as set out in the national agreement on pay and conditions of service as varied or supplemented by the city council's local conditions of service and local collective agreement reached with the trade unions recognised by your employer.

This is the council policy for schools about payments

[UKTECH]

Your HR provider will provide an estimate of redundancy pay entitlement using the Redundancy Payments Table at Appendix 1. The payment will be calculated with reference to the employee’s age, length of service and average weekly earnings at the date of termination. The employee’s actual weeks’ pay will be used, and the statutory cap on a week’s pay will not be applied.