Redundant job - union or independent solicitor?

[Monday]

My daughter is about to be made redundant. She has an informal meeting today and a formal meeting on 4 March. She has been employed for seven years.

In July 2023 her department was transitioned into another department. She successfully applied for another role (project planner) which started in January 2024 (although she had to first train another employee so didn't start until March) . The role didn't seem to exist, there was no job training and she has spent the past year doing apparently menial tasks, not a proper structured role. Another person was given a similar role, the two of them working in tandem. She doesn't know if the other person is being retained.

Possibly at the root of this is that she was employed as a Project Coordinator but her department head is employing only accountancy qualified personnel, although there are a few senior project planners. During the year, her team leader made an off the cuff remark that he didn't need two to do her job, he needed only one. Also it was made clear that the only training available was in accountancy and she was originally employed in Project Management (although had twelve years banking experience and qualifications) so has had no training.

Three questions please-

1- If they make her redundant and retain the other person (who is the same grade and does the same work) could this be constructive dismissal?

2-As she has been given no training to enable her to do the job as per her job description, might this be constructive dismissal?

3- Is the union the best to help her or should she seek help from an independent solicitor specialising in employment law?


I should add that last year she applied for a project manager role in the same firm and didn't get it because she was missing a particular qualification - and on the day of her interview found out that her then line manager had failed to pass on an open invitation to staff to do the course that would have given that qualification.

[ULA]

In answer to your question:

1- If they make her redundant and retain the other person (who is the same grade and does the same work) could this be constructive dismissal?

Not if they follow a fair redundancy procedure. If the company declares that they no longer need 2 people to do this role and are going to reduced by one, then both the other person and your daughter should be placed in a "selection pool" and rated against a selection criteria. As a result of this the person with the lowest score would be the person made redundant unless a suitable alternative position can be found elsewhere in the organisation.


2-As she has been given no training to enable her to do the job as per her job description, might this be constructive dismissal?

Your daughter would have to resign and claim a fundamental breach of contract to be able to make a constructive dismissal claim.

3- Is the union the best to help her or should she seek help from an independent solicitor specialising in employment law?

If she is a union member then that may be a useful starting point to ask for assistance from their legal resources to assist. How skilled they are can sometimes be a question but they should be able to provide advise on a fair redundancy process. An employment lawyer could become costly at least for assisting on what is effectively still an internal process.
There is also this thread on LB and our community that may be able to assist.

[Monday]

Thank you. She is very appreciative of your response and the information. The two of them are both being made redundant but after today's informal 'chat' she has been advised to apply for any suitable job in the organisation of the same grade or next higher grade as she would be a 'preferred' applicant.

[Monday]

"There is also this thread on LB and our community that may be able to assist"

Where do I find this pleasr?

[ULA]

"There is also this thread on LB and our community that may be able to assist"

Sorry my explanation was not very clear. If you have any further questions on behalf of your daughter, then please just come back to this thread that you have created and we can continue to try and assist.

In the meantime I hope that there is a positive response to her application for another suitable role.

[Monday]

Thank you. She is going to challenge this on the basis that it is not a genuine redundancy - ie the group head has engaged 4 more male accountants (6 in total recently), there isn't enough work for them all so he has made two women of a lower grade redundant in order to pass their work onto the male accountants in a higher grade. (Poor economics, will cost the firm approx £50,000 per year more in salaries to two of the accountants to do the same work as the two women they've made redundant).

[Monday]

My daughter has been told that she is being made redundant. The formal process will start on Tuesday.

She has worked for seven years, first as a project coordinator.

In about September 2023, she and others were told their department was being incorporated into another department (new name: Strategic Reporting). They were mapped to a job or could apply for one other. She was a successful applicant for the project planner role. The transition took place in January 2024 although she didn't start her new role until March 2024 because of training someone to take over parts of her previous role.

Since then, her new role didn't seem to exist as per the job description and extensively her work has become doing admin for senior project planners. It is clear that work she did in both roles has progressively been taken away from her and given to others who are one and two grades higher than her.

Recently more staff have been taken on, mostly one grade higher than her, sometimes two grades higher. Two more are due to start on Monday. All new staff are men with accountancy qualifications. These staff are all doing work that was previously my daughter's responsibility in both project roles. The admin work will be allocated to the senior project planners.

The department head is an accountant who has made it clear that he wants staff with accountancy qualifications and not project management qualifications. Even though the firm pride themselves on encouraging and enabling staff to progress in their careers, this man has in the past prevented my daughter and at least one other from project management courses and has clearly said that he will only support staff in progressing any accountancy career development. Now my daughter and another person have been made redundant.

It seems to me that her job is not redundant (six new staff have recently been taken whose work will include work that my daughter did in her project roles) and that the department head simply has a bee in his bonnet about employing people with accountancy qualifications in preference to project management qualifications/skills. I wonder if there may be grounds for challenging the redundancy as being unfair and not a genuine redundancy?

i would be grateful for any input. Thank you

[Monday]

Two are being made redundant. Their redundancy letters will be on 31 March. The other person will leave. My daughter wants to try to keep her employment.

She has been told she can apply for any vacancy and will be considered in the same way as any other applicant.She is disadvantaged by having been denied any kind of training in the last year so is not hopeful.

The firm seems to have its own rules, not the same as ACAS.

In the unlikely event that she retains employment, can she still go to a tribunal because (1) it looks like the redundancy was planned/manipulated for the last year (2) redundancy "rules" appear not to have been followed and (3) ACAS guidlines in respect of finding another job in the same firm appear not to be followed.

Can you only go to tribunal if you are no longer employed by the same employer?

Thank you

[ULA]

Of your daughter does retain her employment by moving to a suitable alternative position, then there is no legal claim for her to make at an employment tribunal. She is no worse off than prior to the redundancy process taking place, particularly if there are no major changes to her terms and she has accepted the position as being a. suitable alterntaive.

If she remained employed but wanted to raise an issue about the process then she would need to do this via a grievance.

[Monday]

This appears to be not a genuine redundancy but 'planned' in Jan 2024 or maybe as far back as summer 2023.

The redundancy pool is the only two people of the same grade who both do the same jobs and have each complained separately during the past year of lack of training and support to enable them to do their jobs properly. Both are being made redundant.The reason given is the reduction in admin and time sheet reports and an email system being automated. Both these people are project planners and not admin assistants.

During the past few months the employer has taken on six new staff at a higher grade with accountancy qualifications. The work done by the redundant personel is being transfered to the new higher grade employees. The office manager recently disclosed that with hindsight, they should have employed one fewer of these new employees. Both the redundant personel have been denied training given to the other 15 or so team members

In September, the other now redundant employee complained to HR about the lack of training and support. HR approached my daughter asking if her previous similar complaint had ever been resolved. She confirmed the situation was unresolved and she would support the complaint made by her colleague. My daughter's then line manager took it out on my daughter. His conduct was abysmal and he left the firm while she was away. Having had no sickness in her seven years employment with the firm, she was off for 3 weeks with work related stress. Whilst off sick, she was diagnosed with borderline type 2 diabetes. The nurse practitioner went through her med records, said there was no signs of this in her medical history and they thought it was a consequence of the diagnosed stress.

There will be no 'suitable alternative', either she is forced to accept redundancy and leave her employment or there is a slight possibility of another job with the same employer which requires different skills, a different career path and substantial retraining. My daughter's reasoning is that if she can get accepted for the new job, after six months she would be able to apply for any job that might come up with the skills and qualifications required in her previous role.

Thank you for the information you have kindly provided.

[ULA]

The slight possibility of another job, if it comes to the point of being offered, may be considered a "suitable alternative". The suitability of a role will depend on factors such as:

* does the new role offer comparable pay and benefits to the previous job;
* the job should not require unreasonable travel or relocation;
* the duties and responsibilities should align closely with the employee's skills and experience or with any necessary training it is felt they can carry out the role;
* the terms of employment, such as working hours, should be reasonable and not significantly different from the previous role.

If there is no other role offered and your daughter is made redundant, then firstly, particularly if she is considering a claim, she can challenge the decision through the appeals process. If this is not successful, although a redundancy is a valid reason for dismissing an employee, there may be grounds for an unfair dismissal claim if she can prove:

* the redundancy process was flawed;
* it was not a genuine redundancy;
* she was selected for redundancy due to an unfair reason such as discrimination or asserting a statutory right.

[Monday]

Thank you for the info.

Discounting the suitable employment, it looks like she may have a case on the basis of all three issues you have identified.

She now has information that new employees are being trained to do work she did.

There have been two meetings, the third is on 3 April, when she will be formally made redundant. Her employers have not replied to her questions 1- what are the reasons for redundancy and 2- Why she and her colleague were selected.

There is a lot of info to process and I am grateful that your responses are helping to clarify.

May I just ask, given that the employee in this firm has no right of appeal so an initial challenge will be a formal complaint, at what point should she make that complaint.

Thank you

[ULA]

There is no legal obligation on employers to offer an employee the right to appeal a redundancy termination. However, good practice and certainly recommendations from ACAS, state that affected employees should always be given the opportunity to challenge any proposed selection pool or criteria during the individual consultation process and the ultimate dismissal.

Even if an employer does not have a formal redundancy appeal process in place, employees can still challenge a redundancy decision. In which case your daughter would need to write to her employer explaining why she is appealing the redundancy. The possible ground of appeal are:

* unfair selection
* procedural errors
* not a genuine redundancy
* failure to consider alternative

This should be done at the point she is formally made redundant. Given she knows this will likely be at the meeting on 3 April it may be an idea for her to start preparing that letter so that she can submit it say on 4 April.

[Monday]

Thank you for this information. The employer has now backtracked, saying she can appeal uo to five days after that meeting. She will take your advice and have her appeal letter ready for the day after the meeting.

[Monday]

I am still trying to help my daughter with a redundancy situation that we think is not a genuine redundancy. Something has come to light that may be relevant and I would appreciate any thoughts please.

Employee A, band 6 is assisted by 2 x band 7's (employees B & C)
Employees D&E, band 6 are assisted by 2 x band 7's (employees F&G) who are being made redundant.

BUT About 3 months ago, employee B was promoted to a band 6 role, leaving her band 7 role vacant. No one ever replaced her in the band 7 role. The vacancy has simply 'faded away'.

Does this mean the vacant B band 7 role can be considered redundant?

If so, is there a reason for thinking that employee C should have been in the redundancy pool along with employees F&G?