Redundancy mess

[ivrytwr3]

Hi all,

Would appreciate some and help advice please!

Been working direct for a UK company for almost 10 years. In Oct 24 received a Notice at Risk of Redundancy. where i was later informed the role is redundant. The company did offer a new role, but was not comparable and a significant step back in responsibility and hours. During a consultation HR and I worked together and reached a compromise where i received confirmation of the changes.

A week later my direct LM informed that the agreed compromise had been revoked and a new proposal was put forward - i refused and said i would continue with the redundancy. We agreed a finish date which allowed me to do a handover (and allowed me to job search!)

I was lucky and got offered a new job almost immediately, however, the old company has said they are extending my role a further few months. I did not agree to this, nor do i want this. I wish to leave on the agreed date with a redundancy payment.

Can you advise on how i am to respond, or is HR correct that no redundancy is payable as the role is not redundant and i am now choosing to resign?

[ULA]

Can I clarify a few things:

What was / is the agreed finish date which allowed you to do a handover and job search?
When was this date agreed?
Were you being paid in lieu of notice or working your notice?
How long is your contractual notice period?
In extending your role a few months have they said that they will still be making you redundant at the end of that period?

[ivrytwr3]

21 Oct 24 - Notice of at Risk of Redundancy

11 Nov 24 - consultation including redundancy on 31 Dec 24.

12 Nov - CEO email confirming conclusion of consultation and agreed changes.

21 Nov 24 - LM says agreed changes revoked and new ones offered - not suitable for me.

5 Dec 24 - decision made that due to current staff shortages and support needed they are pausing the changes to my role until end of March 2025. Therefore my role continues until then.

[ULA]

Sorry I still need the following questions answered.

Were you being paid in lieu of notice or working your notice?
How long is your contractual notice period?
In extending your role a few months have they said that they will still be making you redundant at the end of that period?

Plus did you receive your termination as a result of redundancy with the agreed termination date of 31 December given to you in writing?

[ivrytwr3]

Sorry I still need the following questions answered.

Were you being paid in lieu of notice or working your notice?
How long is your contractual notice period?
Plus did you receive your termination as a result of redundancy with the agreed termination date of 31 December given to you in writing?

Were you being paid in lieu of notice or working your notice? I am still being paid as normal and still working as normal.

How long is your contractual notice period? 1 month

In extending your role a few months have they said that they will still be making you redundant at the end of that period? "pausing the changes to your role until end of March 2025. Therefore your role continues until then". Is the only wording used.

Plus did you receive your termination as a result of redundancy with the agreed termination date of 31 December given to you in writing? Not in writing, but i did follow up with an email to HR confirming LM has agreed a finish date of 31 Dec 24. In writing is that my current role is being deleted and a new (lower) role is being offered on a new contract.

[ivrytwr3]

Would it be advisable to write to HR and inform them that i am leaving as per my redundancy agreement on 31 Dec 24 and will not be accepting the 3 month extension to Mar 25? I would like to leave with a redundancy payment, i have been there quite some time.

How would i word such a letter please?

Any help is appreciated as we are fast approaching Xmas and my leave date

[ULA]

Effectively once an employer has issued an employee with a notice of redundancy (which is different from being told you are potentially "at risk"), it is legally binding, however this does not appear to have happened in your case, which my be an issue because if it had been then it cannot be unilaterally withdrawn by the employer without the employee's consent. However, if circumstances change and the redundancy is no longer necessary, it is possible to withdraw the redundancy notice while the employee is working their notice period, so long as they explicitly agree to this.

If you want to write to HR then it may be good to set out the following:

1. You were put on notice of redundancy risk.
2. That on xxx date you agreed with your LM a leaving date of 31 December on the basis of your employment terminating on the grounds of redundancy.
3. That you followed this up in writing with HR on xxx date.

Then confirm that you are not agreeing to any extension to March 2025 of the redundancy, that you will still be leaving on 31 December and that you still expect your redundancy payment.

I would warn however that this is quite a risky strategy and that the company may say that you are resigning, as no redundancy notice was served on you, the decision on whether there will in fact be a redundancy situation has been deferred until next year and if you leave on this basis no redundancy payment will be due.

Have you also considered speaking with your line manager about the situation as it now stands?

[ivrytwr3]

Effectively once an employer has issued an employee with a notice of redundancy (which is different from being told you are potentially "at risk"), it is legally binding, however this does not appear to have happened in your case, which my be an issue because if it had been then it cannot be unilaterally withdrawn by the employer without the employee's consent. However, if circumstances change and the redundancy is no longer necessary, it is possible to withdraw the redundancy notice while the employee is working their notice period, so long as they explicitly agree to this.

If you want to write to HR then it may be good to set out the following:

1. You were put on notice of redundancy risk.
2. That on xxx date you agreed with your LM a leaving date of 31 December on the basis of your employment terminating on the grounds of redundancy.
3. That you followed this up in writing with HR on xxx date.

Then confirm that you are not agreeing to any extension to March 2025 of the redundancy, that you will still be leaving on 31 December and that you still expect your redundancy payment.

I would warn however that this is quite a risky strategy and that the company may say that you are resigning, as no redundancy notice was served on you, the decision on whether there will in fact be a redundancy situation has been deferred until next year and if you leave on this basis no redundancy payment will be due.

Have you also considered speaking with your line manager about the situation as it now stands?

LM is not the best and they are the ones that wanted new terms after the consultation was complete. They will also tow the line and not go against the company.

I'm going 31 Dec 24 for a better role, it would have been nice to leave with a payment though

[ivrytwr3]

ACAS involved now - HR sent a threatening email saying if i didn't turn up for work in the new year i may face a disciplinary. ACAS are mediating but looking at constructive dismissal.

My concern is the disciplinary bit and any future references - but new job is going well on the plus side

Do i need an employment solicitor at this stage? Any recommendations?

[ULA]

So you did leave on 31 Dec and where you paid up to that date including any accrued but untaken holiday pay?

Are ACAS involved on the basis of seeing if you have a claim for constructive dismissal?

Your employer can continue with a disciplinary procedure even after you have left the company, as long as they do it fairly and follow their own policy. However, there is little point in doing so, as they cannot impose any disciplinary sanction against a former employee so I am not sure the point of it.

You may not want to put them down on any CV in the future for a reference, however typically most new employers will ask for your last employer as a referee, which will the employer you are currently with.

The only other point is to check your contract of employment with your new employer, is is subject to satisfactory references and if so do you know if they have obtained these?

[ivrytwr3]

So you did leave on 31 Dec and where you paid up to that date including any accrued but untaken holiday pay?
- yes.

Are ACAS involved on the basis of seeing if you have a claim for constructive dismissal?
- ACAS advised constructive dismissal.

You may not want to put them down on any CV in the future for a reference
- i was there for several years and aside from the redundancy mess, it was a mostly positive experience. Not sure how i would explain to any future employer why i hadn't put them down.

The only other point is to check your contract of employment with your new employer, is is subject to satisfactory references and if so do you know if they have obtained these?
- References were received by new employer, don't know what was written, most likely just the dates of employment, but new HR are content.

Had word back from ACAS that they have tried to contact my previous employer HR several times - nil result. I have provided alternative contacts.

[ULA]

Did you resign on the basis of constructive dismissal? In other words had you raised a grievance before you left about your employer committing a serious breach of contract, entitling you to resign in response to the employer’s conduct? I do not see anywhere in your posts that you did that.

All I am saying about not putting them down as a reference is that you may not need to as any new employer will want a reference from your current employer and you may be able to provide a personal reference as well. Few new employers require more than 2 referees. However if you do put then down as a referee, then likely it will be a standard form giving dates of employment and job title, so you should be ok.

Thank you for confirming that references have been received by your current employer as that was just a slight cause of concern. In the event that satisfactory references had not been received and this was a condition of the offer, they could have given notice to you. Good that this point is fine and you are enjoying the job.

Employers are not required to engage with ACAS if they do not want to.