Application for better Particulars on the respondents ET3

[ULA]

Misleading facts can be dealt with via your witness statement and in your cross examination of any witnesses.

So I am guessing that the PHR has taken place and the Judge asked the respondent to provide this further information, which had a deadline for submission. This will be reviewed by the Judge to see if it fulfilled their requirement. Not sure when the deadline was but if the Judge is not satisfied with the information a further Order may come the respondent's way. Maybe hold fire for a couple of weeks after the deadline in case something comes back from the judge before making an application. It would be far better to base the application on something a Judge has ordered that you feel does not satisfy the requirement.

[Benny8902]

Misleading facts can be dealt with via your witness statement and in your cross examination of any witnesses.

So I am guessing that the PHR has taken place and the Judge asked the respondent to provide this further information, which had a deadline for submission. This will be reviewed by the Judge to see if it fulfilled their requirement. Not sure when the deadline was but if the Judge is not satisfied with the information a further Order may come the respondent's way. Maybe hold fire for a couple of weeks after the deadline in case something comes back from the judge before making an application. It would be far better to base the application on something a Judge has ordered that you feel does not satisfy the requirement.

Yes, the deadline was today, they submitted last night. The Tribunal accepted it and added it to the Case File this evening, received an email moments ago.

I notice it says it was approved by a legal officer.


I am unsure why the Tribunal accepted it, as the PH Notes are very clear on what they judge wanted and upon reading what they've stated for these points, they've not provided the detail, etc. Very weird am I can't understand that?



I did send the Respondent a request for Further and Better Particulars just now, as I feel these questions are direct, unambiguous and will clear some facts that are important and provide enough detail for me to effectively understand the defense as they plead it.

I will see how it plans out with my request direct to their solicitors before I involve the Tribunal to make an order etc, and see if the Tribunal comes back in the next few weeks to say anything about it (but as its been accepted I doubt it) very weird?


I did notice throughout ET3 they made complaints about how everything was done through 'Written email communication'. I would assume they are not confident in their case? Baffles me why someone would plead incorrect/misleading information when emails have "headers" which include all the detail.


On Witness Statements they are not used within Scotland. It's evidence in chief on the day, though the Presidential Guidance for this year does state they can be ordered when the Claimant is a 'litigant in person', and it would be beneficial to the facts surrounding the case. Will raise with judge at next hearing on this.

[ULA]

Being accepted means that it has arrived at the ET it may not have reviewed by a Judge yet, it depends on availability.

Sorry I keep forgetting you are in Scotland, the periodic reminder from you is helpful when I do not refer across to the differences in the Scottish Tribunals.

I have had a review of the new Presidential Guidance and it does say that if a party wants to use witness statements they should make an application to the tribunal, also copy the respondent, as early in the proceedings as possible, explaining why they consider that it would be in the interests of justice to grant the order.

How far away is the next hearing and what type of hearing is it. You may need to consider making the application prior to this.

[Benny8902]

Being accepted means that it has arrived at the ET it may not have reviewed by a Judge yet, it depends on availability.

Sorry I keep forgetting you are in Scotland, the periodic reminder from you is helpful when I do not refer across to the differences in the Scottish Tribunals.

I have had a review of the new Presidential Guidance and it does say that if a party wants to use witness statements they should make an application to the tribunal, also copy the respondent, as early in the proceedings as possible, explaining why they consider that it would be in the interests of justice to grant the order.

How far away is the next hearing and what type of hearing is it. You may need to consider making the application prior to this.

I have a further prelimary hearing in a little over a month, to see if any other matters need to be discussed or clarified.

I think I will write an order out and copy the respondent in. The witness statement to me seems better way as can lay out facts and limits them in a way, but also makes it easier for cross examination?

[Benny8902]

I did have a few extra things I wanted to ask on. Which was around reading, as well as Case Law.


I have been on the reading on the subject of Discrimination - have read through the below 3 books:

1. Discrimination, Equality and the Law by Aileen McColgan
2. Fredman S, Discrimination Law (2011) (Mrs. Fredman, provided me a copy for free when I emailed her)
3. Blackstone's Guide to the Equality Act 2010 (3rd edn)

I am halfway through reading Blackstone's Guide to the Equality Act 2010 (4th edn) currently, which come out in 2021 and provides a better understanding now that we have left the EU.

Do you happen to know of any other "useful" reads, (apart from the usual guidance and resources the government hold as I have read through those) which might cover the topic of Discrimination under the Equality Act?


In making an application for the ET can I use Case Law and quote directly what was said to support the application - such as below?


In [CaseName][CaseNumber] [EAT/ET] Judge [Name] made the following finding at Paragraph [x]

The judges comments here

The reason I ask this is for a few reasons.

1. It gives the Judge some guidance on what other tribunals or even the UKEAT has said.
2. Allows the judge to understand my application better and see the application is grounded within law

Thanks

[ULA]

Tolleys have a Discrimination Law Handbook which may be useful in addition to what you have already found.

You can refer to case law in support of your application, however I would advise that you do not quotes lots of case law just a couple of very relevant cases will be enough. You need to think about quality not quantity in your application.

[Benny8902]

Thank you.

Also the deadline I provided the respondent to answer a request for better particulars has now passed should I make an application to the Judge to have this provided?

And can I use close ended questions? Such as yes/no, and if yes please specify?

Or would that seem wrong to do. I don't want to allow them room to introduce new allegations and unfounded evidence which they do. On that point can I also ask a question such as

You state x, y, or z was said or done, do you have any audio recordings, transcript of said allegation?

[ULA]

You have not said how long you gave them to respond to your request, did you give them a reasonable time period?

Dependent on your answer to the above question I would suggest that you need to do a chaser for a response and indicate if you have not heard by xxx date and give at least 7 days that you will make an application to the Tribunal.

Not sure what you mean by "And can I use close ended questions? Such as yes/no, and if yes please specify?" If this is in relation to the request for further and better particulars then you cannot keep going back and asking further questions.

"You state x, y, or z was said or done, do you have any audio recordings, transcript of said allegation" again this should have been part of your request for further and better particulars of the allegation/s and the evidence they have to support these.

[Benny8902]

You have not said how long you gave them to respond to your request, did you give them a reasonable time period?

Dependent on your answer to the above question I would suggest that you need to do a chaser for a response and indicate if you have not heard by xxx date and give at least 7 days that you will make an application to the Tribunal.

Not sure what you mean by "And can I use close ended questions? Such as yes/no, and if yes please specify?" If this is in relation to the request for further and better particulars then you cannot keep going back and asking further questions.

"You state x, y, or z was said or done, do you have any audio recordings, transcript of said allegation" again this should have been part of your request for further and better particulars of the allegation/s and the evidence they have to support these.

Apologies for any confusion earlier—using the forum on my mobile has been a bit tricky. To clarify:

I originally provided the Respondent with 7 working days to answer a list of questions. Seeing no response, I plan to send a follow-up email extending another 7 days for them to reply if that is allowed before I request the tribunal for an order?

The questions I posed were designed to be close-ended,with some requiring a "Yes/No" answer. For questions where a "Yes" is provided, I requested further specifics to gain more clarity on those allegations which I don't understand.

For this below;

"You state x, y, or z was said or done, do you have any audio recordings, transcript of said allegation?"

These questions, including the requests for yes/no answers and additional details where applicable, were part of my initial attempt to understand the particulars I sent to the R. I was just more seeking clarification that using yes/no questions on certain points was allowed?

[ULA]

As far as I am aware there is no stipulation as to whether or not using yes/no questions on certain points is allowed.

[Benny8902]

As far as I am aware there is no stipulation as to whether or not using yes/no questions on certain points is allowed.

Phew, that's a far as I could see that it was allowed. Many thanks.

[Benny8902]

Hey ULA

I sent in my application to request Witness Statement. Judge has ordered any written comments on it by the R within 14 days. I take that's if any objections?



I also submitted a request to amend my ET1 8.2, in full. Note; no new pleadings where argued, they where clarified to be easier to understand and are exactly what I told the Judge in my PH last month. And the background is all contained within my Grievances as they where very detailed.

However under 1 pleading I did mention the respondent previously conceded to those acts as Per Madarassy, and how this helped me "shift" the 'burden of proof' per s.136, respondent was aware as I did put this in my grievance as well. Still the same pleading just clarified it as mention above - I take it this is allowed, as this is my version of events and it's really up to the Court to decide this.

And then under 1 pleading I added some case law to support why what I done was within "Public interest". My general question is this really - Is this allowed?


I see nothing which says I cannot do this in my ET1 8.2 section, as the facts are not new, and the pleadings are exactly as I have previously clarified. The pleadings are just more clear on the law, basically saying the following:


The "something" arising in consequence of said disability is due to x, y, z. And are basically as I told the judge and he wrote, but I just made them read better.


The way I look at it is the 'overriding' object it makes everything easier for everyone by doing this, and allows them to see exactly what I am saying, and why etc?

[ULA]

Yes the Judge has given the Respondent 14 days to submit any objection to Witness Statements.

The Judge will have to agree to the amendment and again they are likely to give the Respondent an opportunity to respond

[Benny8902]

Thank you.

The next thing on my list is witnesses and disclosure and list of issues I have a few specific questions on those under (1)/(2)


I have attempted to reach out about the "list of issues" but the representative is on the MIA phase of ignoring communication lol. I have a few specific questions as I cannot find anything within the ET Guidance.

1. The Respondents' witnesses can I object to a witness attending? They have never been involved in my grievances/case - it seems like they are putting what they would think is "their" most knowledgeable around Employment Law up instead of the actual HR personal who dealt with everything.
   .
2. Then for Disclosure - Do I need to be specific and provide the reasons why I want such disclosure of said document? I can narrow the document (Communication, written, etc) down to specific dates and times to assist them in getting the documents which are needed and I can provide a reason of why such document is needed (To show retaliation for protected acts)

Disclosure has not been discussed as of yet.

[ULA]

In answer to your two questions:

1. No you cannot object to the respondent's witnesses, it is down to them to make that decision.

2. Disclosure needs to include all documents each party have in their possession that relate to the issues of the claim, whether they are positive or negative to their respective positions. That will be the guiding principle of disclosure.
If either party knows that the other has not disclosed ddocuments in their possession, then they can request they be included because of the relevance they have to the claim.
You can certainly request the respondent ensures that certain documents they have are put into the bundle with just a statement that they are relevant to your claim as a starting reason for them being included.