Appealing a dismissal

[ULA]

I presume that you need this information in order for you to prepare for the hearing and to draft your witness statement.

On that basis, given that they have now instructed solicitors who are probably getting "up to speed" with the case and the information has not been collated yet to send to you, it may be a worth considering giving this extra week. If you do decide to agree to this then can I suggest that when you write back to the solicitor you make it very clear you are agreeing to an extension to the deadline until Wed 10th May by 4pm and that if all the information requested is not disclosed at this time you will be making an application to the Tribunal for disclosure by the respondent.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , once again can I thank you for your help and your response, I have emailed the solicitors back who are now representing the Respondent, and told them that I am happy to agree to their request for an extra week to send me all the information that I should of been given by the 3.05.23. I stated in my response to them that , although I was very disappointed that the Respondent failed to meet the original date set out on the et3 form, it's in my best interests, and for both parties to allow this extra week, after all I need this information before I can start preparing my witness statement , for the tribunal. Would I be right in assuming that the meeting I attended on 27.03.23 was chaired by the the very person responsible for my dismissal, does this not go against protocol set out by acas , many thanks for your help, David

[ULA]

Sounds like you provided a comprehensive reply to the respondent.

If the meeting on 27 March was the appeal against your dismissal, it should hve been chaired by a senior person not previously involved in the decision to dismiss you.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , once again many thanks for your reply and your help, I can confirm that the meeting I attended on 27th March was actually chaired by the the very person responsible for my dismissal, and I may add this meeting was very one sided , I found it more like an interview, rather than an opportunity to tell my side of the story, I was presented with more allegations, and found myself trying to answer these new allegations, rather than the original ones. Would you happen to have any experience you could pass on, with regards to the consequences it might have for my employer for chairing this meeting, and being responsible for the dismissal, ie , is this really serious etc, many thanks for help

[ULA]

When you provide your evidence, including your witness statement, you will clearly need to set out the process followed and how the fact that the same person who made the decision on your dismissal, chaired your appeal meant you could not have had a fair and reasonable outcome.

Not following a fair and reasonable.process will be taken account of by the Tribunal along with the other facts of the claim.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , once again many thanks for your reply, I have just received an email from the solicitor representing my employer, they have now asked for a , Application for leave to file amended grounds of resistance by way of further and better particulars.It mentions the original et3 filed by the Respondent company was ' in person ' the application will assist the claimant and the tribunal, to understand the Respondent position in advance, and will save time and further riding the objective. They have stated that I wish to object I must do so as soon as possible. To be honest I have not got a clue what this means, or what to do , at the minute you are the only person which seems to know , what on earth is going on , many thanks

[ULA]

Given at your post #13 you mentioned that your ex-employer has now instructed a solicitor it would seem that they have reviewed the initial response by way of the ET3 and original GoR and decided it was not adequate for whatever reason. What they are now asking is to be able to make an application to present an amended GoR document by submitting what is knows as a further and better particulars document. The request for making any type of application needs to be copied into the other party as well being sent to the ET and in doing so, you are being giving notice that if you wish to object to this, then you need to do so as soon as possible. Any objection would need to be sent to the ET and then copied into the respondent's solicitor.

It is not unusual for one side or the other, particularly if they instruct a solicitor after the initial documents were submitted, to make an application of this type. What you have to consider to the over-riding objectives of the tribunal and in addition that potentially you will be presented with a better understanding of the defence the respondent is going to present and what you will need to do to prove your claim and counter the defence.

If you decide to object then you will need to set out your reasons why and send this off to the ET and copy in the solicitor.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , many thanks for your reply I really appreciate it, and all of the advice you have kindly offered. Whilst I now understand a little more I'm still not really sure what the solicitor is asking for, would be right in assuming that they want to amend or be allowed to amend at a later date the et3 form , for whatever reason I sort of understand that, I am totally unsure about something else mentioned, and that is the gor document, what exactly is this. Also the information I requested which I should of received by the 3.05.23 , was not sent I agreed to the solicitors request for an extra week to provide this information, it is the 10th tommorow, would you please have any advice on what I should do if this information has still not been sent , many thanks David

[ULA]

Without seeing the exact wording of their email I cannot be precise but from what you have said their application is possibly a request for you to provide further and better particulars of your claim and once received give the respondent leave to amend the Grounds of Resistance (GoR) document accordingly.

If this information has not been received you can have 2 possible options:

1. Chase the solicitor by email pointing out they have missed the extended deadline you were happy to agree to and given them until the close of business Fri to comply. Continue by saying if they do not comply you will be making an application for disclosure to the ET.
2. Go straight to making an application for disclosure and copy in the respondent.

For the sake of 2 days and being seen to be reasonable I would suggest option 1 but the decision is ultimately yours.

[MrSharples]

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , I've posted a copy of the email from employers solicitor, I'm not sure whether they want to amend the employers response on his et3 or if they need more information on what I said on the et1 , really sorry for being a pain but hope this helps, thank you so much

[ULA]

Great thanks for posting that email. So from the wording there should be an attachment to the email, this will not be an amendment to the ET3 form already submitted but it will as they set out a document headed up Further and Better Particulars to amend the Grounds of Resistance previously submitted with the ET3.

As I mentioned in my previous post this is not unusual when a solicitor becomes involved after the original ET3 response has been provided by an employer acting without legal advice.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , I cannot thank you enough, there is an attachment with about 12 small paragraphs setting out a better defence we could say, do I need to reply to this , and also I still have not received the information I requested and should have been sent on the 3.05.22 , I agreed to an extension of a extra week , but that has now passed, once again I can't thank you enough, cheers david

[ULA]

If you do not wish to object there there is nothing you need to do.

Advice on the options you can consider, having not received the information in line with the extended deadline are in my poat #24. In your next contact with the solicitor you could just acknowledge receiving the application if you are not objecting.

[MrSharples]

Hi Ula , you were quite correct there was an attachment I failed to open until your reply, this attachment includes a full bundle to be used at the tribunal from the correspondent, his solicitor has asked me to provide full details of my schedule of losses asap before Friday gone , which I have done, ( bit cheeky of them giving me a deadline when I have allowed them more time to provide certain information). You will notice on the statement provided we both have to do certain things before certain dates, the first date was 3.05.23 , was mainly my schedule of losses, which I done, could you please advise me on what they require before the 2nd date, which is 17.5.23.I am really worried that this date is not far away, and if this date expects me to provide my full witness statement along with supporting relevant documents I have. I am hoping that the date of the 31.05.23 is when they need all this information, as I am not where near completing my full witness statements etc.The good news is that I have a Solicitor who is prepared to help me with my witness statement, and how to write it , however this I believe will be extremely difficult before the 17.5.23.Could I please ask your advice on ( before I call this solicitor tommorow) that when I write my witness statement, IE am I allowed to confront the Respondents allegations, and witness statements " head on" or does this happen on the day of the tribunal . I have a good idea what I want to include, but not sure if this would be the right time to question their version of events in my witness statement, or stick to just what happened on the night of the incident. The respondent has included incidents and witness statements in his bundle totally unrelated to the actual incident, something I was totally unaware of until receiving what's going to be included in the bundle as part of their own evidence, now which I have to try and defend in my own witnessstatement. I am hoping that the date of the 31.5.23 would be my deadline for this ,and not the 17.5.23 , if I am wrong can I apply for more time to prepare everything, many thanks for help , I cannot thank you enough,
cheers David