Wages withheld by Postmaster

[nellie123]

Hi to all. My wifes wages have been withheld . She is a post office counter clerk.Her balance was showing a minus at the end of her shift. The owners of the post office have said openly that they know my wife has not actually stolen any money , but that she is responsible for the minus balance on her stock.This can only be a typo error. She has repeatedly asked the postmaster to have someone from the main post office to look into it. He has not done this,and he is withholding this months pay. She is in part time employment with no contract and only does 12 hours per week. The annoying thing is that her float money( which can be several thousand pound ) is available for any other employee to access. Please help

[ostell]

Why have you started a new thread today about the same subject? There are answers in your other thread.

[james_law]

Any employer must have a very good reason to not pay you. And if this reason is lawful then you need to check your wife's contract and see if there is any clauses which allow the employer to withhold wages.

If you firstly just check your contract and post your findings.

[nellie123]

Why have you started a new thread today about the same subject? There are answers in your other thread.

Thank for your reply. She does not have a contract

[nellie123]

Why have you started a new thread today about the same subject? There are answers in your other thread.

She does not have a contract, the postmaster would not give her a contract. At the previous post office where she was employed part time for over 8 years she did have a contract. Any shortfalls on stock were not charged to any employee at that post office

[des8]

It might not be written down, but there is a contract.
As it is not written, the terms will be as discussed on starting work and as dictated by law.
A significant implied term is one of mutual trust and confidence, and if that has gone it could lead to a serious breach of contract

It seems to me that there is possibly a case here of unlawful deduction from wages
There are only three reasons which allow an employer to deduct from wages: 1) the law requires it (tax etc)
2) it is written into the contract of employment
3) the employee agree
Employment Rights Act 1996 sec 13-27

paulajayne or Ula will know more, but Christmas fast approaches so there might be some delay in response

[nellie123]

It might not be written down, but there is a contract.
As it is not written, the terms will be as discussed on starting work and as dictated by law.
A significant implied term is one of mutual trust and confidence, and if that has gone it could lead to a serious breach of contract

It seems to me that there is possibly a case here of unlawful deduction from wages
There are only three reasons which allow an employer to deduct from wages: 1) the law requires it (tax etc)
2) it is written into the contract of employment
3) the employee agree
Employment Rights Act 1996 sec 13-27

paulajayne or Ula will know more, but Christmas fast approaches so there might be some delay in response

Thank you for this very helpful reply.If it was of mutual trust my wife was never informed that a till discrepancy would become deductible from her wage.If she had been informed of that she would not have accepted the position. Very annoying , where do we go from here.

[des8]

Afraid you'll have to wait for those I tagged to get premium advice on the next move by your better half !

Employment isn't my scene and I only picked up on your post as once, a long long time ago for a whole year I was a sub postmaster.
One of the reasons for selling that shop was Post Office Counters were such lousy employers!

[nellie123]

Afraid you'll have to wait for those I tagged to get premium advice on the next move by your better half !

Employment isn't my scene and I only picked up on your post as once, a long long time ago for a whole year I was a sub postmaster.
One of the reasons for selling that shop was Post Office Counters were such lousy employers!

Thank very much anyway. Have a good one

[ULA]

Sorry but there are several issues to unravel here.

Firstly the issue of your wife not having a contract - these do not need to be in writing to be legally valid but it is always better if they are. A contract starts as soon as an offer of employment is accepted and starting work would be considered acceptance of the terms and conditions, so if no written contract had been provided before starting, it would be the verbal terms and conditions when your wife was interviewed that she accepted on starting the job. Going on from this though most workers are legally required to be provided with a Written Statement of the main terms and conditions of employment within 2 calendar months of starting employment covering things like pay, hours of work and holiday entitlement.

Secondly, the issue of withholding of wages. In the absence of a written contract or Written Statement which contains a clause about being able to deduct from wages if there is shortfall in the till and if this was not explained to your wife verbally when being interviewed for the position and if she has not agreed to the deduction then the actions taken by the owners are an unlawful deduction from wages.

Her first course of action would be to raise a grievance with the owners regarding this unlawful deduction of wages. In doing so I would suggest that she set out the reasons why it is an unlawful deduction as explained above and hopefully the fact that your wife raises the issues in this way will resolve the situation. If it does not then she will have the right to make a claim with the Employment Tribunal but hopefully it will not come to that.

[nellie123]

Thank you very much ULA

[nellie123]

Sorry but there are several issues to unravel here.

Firstly the issue of your wife not having a contract - these do not need to be in writing to be legally valid but it is always better if they are. A contract starts as soon as an offer of employment is accepted and starting work would be considered acceptance of the terms and conditions, so if no written contract had been provided before starting, it would be the verbal terms and conditions when your wife was interviewed that she accepted on starting the job. Going on from this though most workers are legally required to be provided with a Written Statement of the main terms and conditions of employment within 2 calendar months of starting employment covering things like pay, hours of work and holiday entitlement.

Secondly, the issue of withholding of wages. In the absence of a written contract or Written Statement which contains a clause about being able to deduct from wages if there is shortfall in the till and if this was not explained to your wife verbally when being interviewed for the position and if she has not agreed to the deduction then the actions taken by the owners are an unlawful deduction from wages.

Her first course of action would be to raise a grievance with the owners regarding this unlawful deduction of wages. In doing so I would suggest that she set out the reasons why it is an unlawful deduction as explained above and hopefully the fact that your wife raises the issues in this way will resolve the situation. If it does not then she will have the right to make a claim with the Employment Tribunal but hopefully it will not come to that.

Hi happy new year.
Going back to this case , my wifes wages should have been paid on the 1st of Jan 2019. The wages have not been paid. We have just send a letter stating that it is illegal to withhold these wages and have asked them to respond within 7 working days. Also today we were contacted by the police as the postmaster is now stating that my wife has stolen the money. The police have investigated this accusation and have told us they will not be taking any further action.He could not prove that my wife had taken any money.What would be our next step to achieve a satisfactory result from this.
Thank you

[ULA]

Happy New Year and sorry to hear your wife's issue has not been resolved.

From your latest post is sounds like no wages have been paid to your wife. Does the amount of her wages due equal the amount of money that was short in her till? I would find it very coincidental if that was the case, or was she paid part of her salary minus the "shortfall" amount?

You have followed the correct course of action by sending a letter as soon the event of the unpaid wages has occurred and you have given a reasonable time for the postmaster to respond. It is now a waiting game to see whether you get a response. Did you mention in the correspondence what you would do if a response is not forthcoming in the time?

Ultimately if the matter does not get resolved then your wife has the option to claim the monies via an Employment Tribunal, which will include ACAS's early conciliation scheme. Your wife would have to make the claim within 3 months less one day from the last day the unlawful deduction was made which in this case would be 1 Jan, since that was the date payment was due.

[nellie123]

Happy New Year and sorry to hear your wife's issue has not been resolved.

From your latest post is sounds like no wages have been paid to your wife. Does the amount of her wages due equal the amount of money that was short in her till? I would find it very coincidental if that was the case, or was she paid part of her salary minus the "shortfall" amount?

You have followed the correct course of action by sending a letter as soon the event of the unpaid wages has occurred and you have given a reasonable time for the postmaster to respond. It is now a waiting game to see whether you get a response. Did you mention in the correspondence what you would do if a response is not forthcoming in the time?

Ultimately if the matter does not get resolved then your wife has the option to claim the monies via an Employment Tribunal, which will include ACAS's early conciliation scheme. Your wife would have to make the claim within 3 months less one day from the last day the unlawful deduction was made which in this case would be 1 Jan, since that was the date payment was due.

You are correct in saying that she has not received any of her monthly pay. That wage was approx. one third of her till deficit by a typo error. She has actually visited her last place of employment to send a signed for letter to her present employer.The cashier who served her ( a previous colleague ) could not believe her employer had done such an action. She also stated that her own till was in debit by £2000-00 which would never be deducted from her pay as it always comes back eventually after a long process in the system that is used. ironically my wifes postmasters till was in debit by some £650 the same month as my wifes was down by £950-00. So am I right in thinking that he has stolen that money???

[ULA]

I would just caution making any assumptions at this moment, particularly if they cannot be proven.

Let's just see what response your wife gets to her letter and take it a step at a time. Hopefully the fact that the letter has talked about unlawful deduction of wages will make him think about his actions and speedily rectify the situation.