RLP Advice needed please

[pinkcandy3]

Hello all my name is linzi and im new to this site, really in need of some advice if anyone can help, thankyou in advane.

A couple of weeks ago i was doing my weekly shopping a tesco on a saturday morning as i have for over 12 years now, and before i went my daughter asked me to pick up her favourite lipstick as i was shopping anyway and she doesnt drive, go to the makeup counter find her lipstick and put it in my trolly, started shopping and it kept falling out the holes in the trolly, so stupily i put it in my pocket, thinking must remember to get it out at the checkout, continued shopping, stopped to speak to a friend, contiued shopping, got to the checkout paid for my shopping £124 went to get cigerettes paid for them then yep walked out the shop. followed buy a store detective who asked me to come back into the shop, im still obliviousy as to why at this point . took me to a back room then said i had been caught on camera shoplifting from the make up counter, id never been so embaressed in all my life, im a 40 year old woman who has never done or dreamed of shoplifting. anyway the police was called and asked what happened i explained that it was a complete mistake and i litterally forgot, hence id just spent £124 on my food shopping, the police said i would have to pay a penalty notice of £80 ive also got a 12 month ban from the shop and from getting petrol , ridiculous he let me walk out the shop go to my car and said he would me meet at my house to sort out the ticket, got home and half hour later he came gave me the ticket and left. i phoned and paid straight away. that was that still feel humiliated at being treated like im a criminal. 3 weeks later i have now got a leter from RLP demanding i pay £147.50 for a fixed contribution to the store can they seriously do this and do i really have to pay, im distusted enough from my stupid mistake over a £8 lipstick that wasnt even for me. help really needed here. thanks guys

[bluebottle]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

The police officer was wrong, in the circumstances, as he/she appears not to have applied the two-part test prescribed in the case of R -v- Ghosh [1982]. If he/she had, the test would have failed. Also, I note the Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) was issued 30 minutes after the alleged incident. They are supposed to be issued at the time. It's a pity you paid. Personally, I would have challenged it. However, I am wondering if what the Tesco security muppet said to the police was a statement of fact. I do know, from experience, that Tesco appear to have a corporate policy of not being entirely truthful with their customers and it would not surprise me if they were the same where the police were involved.

As for RLP's demands, this is nothing more than a speculative invoice. The Law Commission has publicly-stated that such claims have no basis in law whatsoever and this was confirmed by a senior Circuit Judge, at Oxford County Court, in May of last year. RLP will insist that their version of the law is correct and that posters on LB don't know what they are talking about. Oh yeah? A number of LB members are legal professionals, some are retired police officers, like myself, whilst others are experts in their own particular fields.

If Tesco took back the lipstick, they have lost absolutely nothing and due to what I suspect is a poorly-trained security muppet, any alleged cost they have incurred is as a result of their over-reaction and incompetent handling of a situation that could have been dealt with in a far more rational and sensible manner. Unless they can prove they have suffered actual and quantifiable loss that is attributable to you and they can prove this, the Law Commission's public statement applies - there is no basis in law for RLP's demands.

Other LBers will come onto this thread and give advice, so hold on.

[busytrev]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

Personally I would not have accepted the PND on the grounds that it was an innocent mistake and the onus is on the prosecution to prove that you intended to "permanently deprive the owner of the lipstick" You could have argued that as soon as you realised you hadn't paid for the item then you would have returned to the store and paid the £8.
I'm not 100% sure what the legislation is and where you stand legally in respect of the original issue of the PND as you paid the fine straight away. But my advice would be to contact the Police force who issued you with the ticket and ask if there is any appeal procedure you can pursue. You have nothing to lose and if you are of previous good character then this would surely be in your favour.

With much respect to Bluebottles comment that the officer should have issued the PND at the store and not 30 minutes after the incident it is my belief that the Police Officer has to issue the ticket as soon as is practicable so there could be a genuine reason why he came to your home later.

This is my personal opinion and offered as advice only.

[gravytrain]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

Paying the notice is not an admission of guilt of course, neither does it mean that you will have any criminal record.

The letter from RLP should be treated the same way as any other RLP invoice, the FPN makes absolutely no difference to its authenticity.

You may decide to reply stating that you dispute that you caused any recoverable losses to the retailer, or you may just ignore. As BB says have a look around this forum you will see examples of posters who have done both, the result is usually the same, they rarely try to enforce.

[pinkcandy3]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

He let me leave the store, on my own to avoid embarressment being escorted out with him to my car , put my shopping away at home then he turned up half an hour later, issed the ticket then left????? now got this stupid RLT letter demanding money, so now not sure where to go from here, im not worried about the PND as thats paid done and dusted, its this stupid letter now im concerned about. yes the lipstick was returned to the store straight away, eledgible for resale so yes what have tesco lost nothing, ??

[Angry Cat]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

RLP must be very busy at the moment!

I heard a horror story from a young woman who is currently off sick with depression.
I would hasten to add that she is decent and an intelligent individual, who was accosted in a superdrug store and accused of theft even though she had not taken anything.
Apparently, she had put an item back on the wrong gondola (she felt sick). RLP said that her intention was to come back later and steal the item.

They held her for some time took her picture on a blackberry mob and had no ID.

Quite underandabely she was/is devasted and is now waiting for the RLP fixed fine letter to arrive, which will be approx £150.00.

How can RLP get away with terrorising vulnerable young people?

[wales01man]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

If she never left superdrug she could not have stolen anything,if RLP send a demand they could demand money from everone who walks round a shop with a basket of goods and say they WERE GOING TO STEAL THEM

[bluebottle]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

RLP must be very busy at the moment!

I heard a horror story from a young woman who is currently off sick with depression.
I would hasten to add that she is decent and an intelligent individual, who was accosted in a superdrug store and accused of theft even though she had not taken anything.
Apparently, she had put an item back on the wrong gondola (she felt sick). RLP said that her intention was to come back later and steal the item.

They held her for some time took her picture on a blackberry mob and had no ID.

Quite underandabely she was/is devasted and is now waiting for the RLP fixed fine letter to arrive, which will be approx £150.00.

How can RLP get away with terrorising vulnerable young people?

Complete speculation. As the District Judge at my local County Court likes to say to barristers and LIPs, "Where is your evidence?"

Having read what happened, Superdrug could be liable for Unlawful Detention and Causing Intentional Alarm, Distress or Harassment to Another. IMHO, both Superdrug and RLP are, in this case, treading on very dangerous ground legally.

[CleverClogs]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

what have tesco lost nothing, ??

No.

It would seem that they have lost your custom to one of their rivals, if you choose to respect their "ban".

[CleverClogs]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

I heard a horror story from a young woman who is currently off sick with depression.
I would hasten to add that she is decent and an intelligent individual, who was accosted in a superdrug store and accused of theft even though she had not taken anything.
Apparently, she had put an item back on the wrong gondola (she felt sick). RLP said that her intention was to come back later and steal the item.

They held her for some time

Is she going to sue and, if not, why not?

How can RLP get away with terrorising vulnerable young people?

It would seem that nobody has yet applied the Fraud Act 2006 to their fatuous demands.

[Angry Cat]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

Apparently, the item was a hair colour product which she had second thoughts about. She placed it back on a gondola but not in the correct area. It would appear that she did leave the premises and was then approached by a so called security individual when outside.
This individual said that she had stolen an item and that she must come back inside;
she replied that she had not taken anything and agreed to go back inside in order that they could search her person. Of course, they found nothing but said that she had acted suspiciously.
The young woman relayed what had happened and then the security person went to find the item that had not been stolen. But they said that she was going to come back in order to steal the item in question.

To reiterate, the security person had no ID and detained this young woman; she was so upset by this time that she was shaking;
They took pictures of her on a blackberry phone (obviously she agreed (under duress) because she was terrified!

She was given a "NOTICE", of which I will type up and post next

[bluebottle]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

Angry Cat,

Retail security staff have no, repeat, no power or right, in law, to search a person's body, clothing or bags. What this security creature did is totally illegal. There is a not-for-profit organisation called The Private Prosecution Service (PPS) who provide services to individuals to bring private prosecutions on a paid and pro bono basis. This is the link to their website http://prosecutionservice.org/ If ever there was a case for bringing a prosecution against out-of-control retail security staff, this has to be such a case.

The offences I have identified from your post are -

Causing Intentional Alarm, Distress or Harassment to Another (Public Order Act 1986)
Battery (if the creature physically manhandled her)
Unlawful Detention

Other offences may come to light.

My thanks to Cynthesis for making me aware of the existence of PPS.

[Angry Cat]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

TAKE NOTICE

That due to difficulties encountered with your behaviour whilst upon these privately owned premises, you are formally notified, by your acceptance of this letter, that you are barred from entering any property or area belonging to the Mall Shopping areas, multi storey car park and Bus area.

This action is necessary for the reasonable enjoyment that members of the public are entitled to when using these Premises for the purposes of their shopping and business needs, as well as continued good management of the properties.

Any request to re-enter our premises must be given in writing

In the meantime, should you enter any of the premises, it may be construed that you are committing an act of trespass and the relevant action will be taken against you.

IMAGE RECORDING


It has been explained and understood that your image has been taken by a member of Mall staff for the purposes of ongoing crime prevention and as record for clarification of identity at a later date.

It was also understood that a copy of your facial image be shared with XXX Town Centre Management and XXX Police.

Signed and Witnessed.

What happens next

The company will instruct Retail Loss Prevention Limited who will contact you and they will decide the amount that you need to pay and how payment can be made.
Failure to pay the amount under our civil action may result in:

County/Sheriff Court proceedings being brought against you;
The value of the claim increasingly significantly to cover interest and court fees;
Your may have a judgment awarded against you.

Retail Loss Prevention Limited, PO Box 5413, Nottingham, NG7 2BJ

In short the above is unbelievable and I am astonished RLP can get away with such treatment of vulnerable individuals...clearly they only pick on the weak and unempowered.
GRRRRRRR!

[Angry Cat]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

Angry Cat,

Retail security staff have no, repeat, no power or right, in law, to search a person's body, clothing or bags. What this security creature did is totally illegal. There is a not-for-profit organisation called The Private Prosecution Service (PPS) who provide services to individuals to bring private prosecutions on a paid and pro bono basis. This is the link to their website http://prosecutionservice.org/ If ever there was a case for bringing a prosecution against out-of-control retail security staff, this has to be such a case.

The offences I have identified from your post are -

Causing Intentional Alarm, Distress or Harassment to Another (Public Order Act 1986)
Battery (if the creature physically manhandled her)
Unlawful Detention

Other offences may come to light.

My thanks to Cynthesis for making me aware of the existence of PPS.

Thanks for the reply, I am absolutely amazed that this firm can get away with such bullying.

My only part in this sad story is to get some help for the young lady involved, who is not in the best of health and this certainly has not helped.

Just spoke to her on the phone in order to get a little more information...she still appears to be a bit shaken by the experience.
And is awaiting to receive the demand of money from RLP, which apparently is now for wasting the security creatures time; the amount she was told is around £150.00 (just under).

Addendum: Just for clarification the security creatures did not actually touch her body or bag. But they did insist that she open the bag...most would comply, under duress, in order to prove innocence!

[CleverClogs]

Re: RLP Advice needed please

Just spoke to her on the phone in order to get a little more information...she still appears to be a bit shaken by the experience.

What she clearly needs is a holiday - and for Superdrug to pay for it!

If they bothered to think about it, such an offer could enhance their reputation.

And is awaiting to receive the demand of money from RLP, which apparently is now for wasting the security creatures time; the amount she was told is around £150.00 (just under).

This is, of course, utter nonsense. The security troll wasted his own time by making a false accusation and (possibly) unlawfully arresting that poor wench.

If RLP are daft enough to try to get money from someone who merely moved an item in a store, then they could risk a private, criminal prosecution as well as public ridicule or opprobrium via the news media.

Addendum: Just for clarification the security creatures did not actually touch her body or bag. But they did insist that she open the bag...most would comply, under duress, in order to prove innocence!

I believe that anticipation of force may be enough to prove assault and unlawful arrest.