Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

There’s no harm in doing that. If you are going to email the LBA, I would mark your letter me underneath the Vodafone address as saying: “BY POST AND EMAIL TO: [email address].

Given that you’ve already sent a LBA before and not bothered to do anything after, they might ignore it again.

[beaconsman]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Vodafone: where do i start! After being with them since 2010, my contract was up so went sim only, that expires in November this year,,(yey). Time to move on as they wont even offer me a loyalty discount which they have done for the last few years! Plenty more suppliers out there,,,

[AbbieA]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Hi Guys, quick update. I have received an acknowledgement of receipt of the LBA from the UK Legal Team:

Thank you for your email and letter regarding the above account.

We write to acknowledge safe receipt. We are looking into the issues raised and will revert as soon as possible.

If you have any further queries in the meantime please direct them to me directly.

Lee is also still providing me with almost weekly updates on whether or not he has any info to share (none so far).

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Glad to hear it they have come back to you,and as I suspected, Lee has no further updates though I see no reason why Lee (no disrespect to him) has any need to provide you with weekly updates since the matter is now back in the hands of their legal team. So whatever response Lee has is likely going to be the same response from the legal team if it didn't already come from them.

I predict one of several outcomes happening:

1. Either they are going to deny that they are in negligent and/or breach of DPA and will provide their reasons why, I'll be interested in how they would seek to discredit the bank confirming that the signature was fraudulent on the DD mandate or they may just overlook it or even water that argument down.

2. They will accept or deny any wrongdoing but as a 'gesture of goodwill' (which has no legal meaning) they might offer you some compensation, maybe lower than what you are expecting. Tip, never take the first offer if it is way off what you are seeking. I also suspect they would want to gag you from discussing the terms of the settlement by adding in a confidentiality clause. Personally I would tell them where to go with that, because why should you be refrained from discussing your case and what was settled for the benefit of Vodafone? If their actions hadn't caused them to be negligent in the first place then it wouldn't have got this far. Also, what if you want to share your story in the media due to the distress it has caused you? The confidentiality clause is unlikely going to allow you to do that. Of course its up to you as to whether you want to accept a settlement with a confidentiality clause contained in it.

3. They might even seek to argue that they can't discuss anything because of ongoing criminal proceedings. As I've suggested in earlier posts, I call BS on that as criminal proceedings do not prevent you from seeking redress for their poor service and conduct. Remember, the civil standard of proof is a balance of probabilities which, in other words, is it more likely than not, that Vodafone have been negligent and/or reported inaccurate data to CRAs. You only need to tip the scales to 51% for a court to find in your favour.

Anyhow, let's see what their response is, but do keep an eye on the deadline for their response. You gave them 14 days so if you haven't heard from them with 3 days to go you might want to give them a gentle reminder of this that if no response is forthcoming then you will be looking to issue proceedings, unless they are seeking an extension of time for a response in which case any extension should be reasonable i.e. a further 7 days.

[AbbieA]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Glad to hear it they have come back to you,and as I suspected, Lee has no further updates though I see no reason why Lee (no disrespect to him) has any need to provide you with weekly updates since the matter is now back in the hands of their legal team. So whatever response Lee has is likely going to be the same response from the legal team if it didn't already come from them.

I predict one of several outcomes happening:

1. Either they are going to deny that they are in negligent and/or breach of DPA and will provide their reasons why, I'll be interested in how they would seek to discredit the bank confirming that the signature was fraudulent on the DD mandate or they may just overlook it or even water that argument down.

2. They will accept or deny any wrongdoing but as a 'gesture of goodwill' (which has no legal meaning) they might offer you some compensation, maybe lower than what you are expecting. Tip, never take the first offer if it is way off what you are seeking. I also suspect they would want to gag you from discussing the terms of the settlement by adding in a confidentiality clause. Personally I would tell them where to go with that, because why should you be refrained from discussing your case and what was settled for the benefit of Vodafone? If their actions hadn't caused them to be negligent in the first place then it wouldn't have got this far. Also, what if you want to share your story in the media due to the distress it has caused you? The confidentiality clause is unlikely going to allow you to do that. Of course its up to you as to whether you want to accept a settlement with a confidentiality clause contained in it.

3. They might even seek to argue that they can't discuss anything because of ongoing criminal proceedings. As I've suggested in earlier posts, I call BS on that as criminal proceedings do not prevent you from seeking redress for their poor service and conduct. Remember, the civil standard of proof is a balance of probabilities which, in other words, is it more likely than not, that Vodafone have been negligent and/or reported inaccurate data to CRAs. You only need to tip the scales to 51% for a court to find in your favour.

Anyhow, let's see what their response is, but do keep an eye on the deadline for their response. You gave them 14 days so if you haven't heard from them with 3 days to go you might want to give them a gentle reminder of this that if no response is forthcoming then you will be looking to issue proceedings, unless they are seeking an extension of time for a response in which case any extension should be reasonable i.e. a further 7 days.

Morning! So today is the deadline as stipulated in the LBA. Vodafone UK Legal Team have confirmed receipt via email, as shown above, but there has been no further communication since. I have drafted the following to send in response:

Morning ********,

Thank you for your email confirming safe receipt of the Letter Before Action (the 'LBA'). The LBA states that:


'The above offer shall remain open for acceptance until 4:00pm on 27/10/17 at which point the offer shall be revoked...' and:
'If I do not hear back from you either way I shall have no other choice but to commence legal proceedings and seek the full amount of damages I believe I am entitled to ... without further notice to Vodafone.'

I understand that you are 'looking into the issues raised and will revert as soon as possible' and I appreciate that the LBA was not signed for and received by Vodafone until 16/10/17. As a result of this, I am willing to extend the deadline of 27/10/17 for a further 7 days, if required. Please can you confirm if you would like me to do this? If not then I will be commencing with legal proceedings as detailed in the LBA.

Many Thanks,


********



Do you think this is appropriate?

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Perhaps a little more formal.

1. Put 'Dear' instead of 'Morning'

2. I would remove the following as you are the one in control, not Vodafone: ... if required. Please can you confirm if you would like me to do this?

3. You should also confirm the new deadline to which you expect them to confirm their position on liability, or add a new line at the end saying "I look forward to you confirming your position on liability by [date]."

[AbbieA]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Hi Guys,

Quick update; Vodafone failed to respond to the LBA within the allotted time, despite being given an extension, though they did mention that they were having a meeting about it the following week and may or may not be able to respond after that. As a result, the claim was issued on the 7th of November and deemed as served on the 12th. They have until the 26th of November to reply.

I have also just seen that the trial in relation to Operation Rosewood has been concluded today; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-2m-fraud.html , hopefully this should speed up the whole process now.

I'd also like to thank Lee from Vodafone who had been checking for updates on the account almost weekly but has now been asked to stand down in light of the court papers being issued. I appreciate him trying to help.

[EXC]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Interesting!

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Hi Guys,

Quick update; Vodafone failed to respond to the LBA within the allotted time, despite being given an extension, though they did mention that they were having a meeting about it the following week and may or may not be able to respond after that. As a result, the claim was issued on the 7th of November and deemed as served on the 12th. They have until the 26th of November to reply.

I have also just seen that the trial in relation to Operation Rosewood has been concluded today; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-2m-fraud.html , hopefully this should speed up the whole process now.

I'd also like to thank Lee from Vodafone who had been checking for updates on the account almost weekly but has now been asked to stand down in light of the court papers being issued. I appreciate him trying to help.

Just out of curiosity, would you be willing to share the particulars of claim you submitted?

[AbbieA]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Just out of curiosity, would you be willing to share the particulars of claim you submitted?

Hi Rob, yes I'm happy to share but not sure if it wise at this stage to share publicly? I don't want to jeopardise the case in any way.

Vodafone have acknowledged the claim and stated that they intend to defend in full. They have also instructed a law firm to act on their behalf. They now have until 11/12/17 to respond.

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

I'm not sure it would jeopardise the case since it is a matter of public record at the court, but if you feel more comfortable sending by private message that's fine. The reason I ask is that obviously none of us have seen your particulars and I'm just conscious that if you've not properly pleaded your claim, Vodafone may get off on a technicality or on the basis that it wasn't pleaded.

I think at this stage the intention to defend in full is standard so as not to prejudice any rights or defence they have against you. But it will be interesting to see what their defence is.

Perhaps one of the admins is able to put this thread more privately so we are able to have a more frank discussion on it, maybe in VIP? but I'm not sure Lee from Vodafone will still be able to access it? @Amethyst?

[MIKE770]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

how can one help when details are not forth coming? put particulars on here minus personal detail and account numbers, people are not paid to look on these sites all day you are only one of many thousands of cases, but as a security matter we state no personal details just in case!

[slainte caragh]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

I'm not sure how you can "assert that Vodafone have been negligent in allowing a contract to be opened with insufficient documentation" when the account was opened in a Carphone Warehouse store where presumably the documents were presented.

As I understand it all new mobile phone contract applications are credit checked at the point of sale in the Carphone Warehouse store through a system which links to Vodafone's system. It would usually check the Electoral Roll on the CRA file against the information given to the Carphone Warehouse.

I have no idea what documents they ask for but proof of address might be one, such as a photo driving licence or bank statement etc.

The way a contract is taken out in store is as follows
A full credit check, checking the electoral roll, proof of documentation which is normally a debit/credit card registered to the address, a form of photo ID (easy enough forged apparently), a utility bill (NOT a mobile phone bill) registered to the address within the last 3 months or a bank statement to the address within the last 3 months - easy if the account is paperless!

Were you on the Electoral Roll at your parents' address (where the Default was registered) or at your term-time uni address at the time you completed that questionnaire?

If the account was opened in a different name to you and at a different address (not your parents or term-time uni address given to the 'market researcher') then why didn't that flag up on the Vodafone/Carphone Warehouse credit check unless Carphone Warehouse didn't carry out proper checks?
In this case they take a previous address too. It is simple enough to say Oh I've only been there x amount of months/weeks my last address is xxxxx

https://selfhelp.carphonewarehouse.c...00000000000%7D

Consider whether the reason Vodafone hasn't given you information of the account opening may be because they weren't directly party to it if it was done in a Carphone Warehouse store in person with one of their advisers
If this is the case then no, VF won't have the documentation as CPW are an intermedary (kinda like a franchise) and keep the information for themselves to upgrade etc.

From what you say Vodafone has refunded you (via your bank) all the charges they collected by Direct Debit which I presume would have been for line rental, air time, texts etc. but was there also a handset which would have had a trackable IMEI number
If this is the case, the IMEI will be blocked as standard and information as to the location and time of last call is normally forwarded to the company's fraud team. What happens there is something I was never told (didn't need to know) but I know that they take fraud seriously. It might be slightly different as I worked for "the enemy", but I am led to believe Fraud Prevention is a blanket format!

Perhaps when that letter from the Legal Team said the account "will be left cancelled and collectable" it meant that once/if the perpetrators of the fraud are convicted then Vodafone will be in a position to "collect" the money they've lost from them (i.e. the fraudsters under the Proceeds of Crime Act etc).

From what I've read on the internet (so not reliable ) there was a massive fraud which may have resulted in Vodafone loosing a lot of money which they intend to recover.

You need to aim at the right target before you accuse them of being negligent in court.

The Default marker may be a different issue.

Di

My answers are in Purple.

I don't know a lot about court cases but I know how CPW and the phone contract side works if that helps.

With an intermediary the contract side is kept with them, the network is supplied by VF/O2 etc. Customer services etc is normally directed back to CPW. The bills are payable to VF, CPW are paid a kinda commision (I don't really understand how this part works) and are allowed to sell at a discounted rate etc.

hope this helps

Callie

[AbbieA]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the late reply, I have been away on holiday. Vodafone have now submitted a defence, though I am yet to see it. I will send the Particulars of Claim to Rob now via pm. I will then share on here if he is happy it will no effect on the case (sorry guys, I'm new to this and don't want to put my foot in it!)

Thanks for all your help!

[R0b]

Re: Taking Court Action Against Vodafone - Remove Default Notice

I don't think posting the particulars on here is going to affect you in any way, though I must admit they aren't the greatest particulars of claim. Another point is that your PoC says you will provide detailed particulars within 14 days from service of the Claim Form, did you tick the box on the MCOL site that says you'll provide further details of the claim? Or did you just put what was contained in the Claim Form?

Assuming you've checked MCOL to see they've filed a defence, how long ago was that? Maybe you should contact them and ask for a copy if its been at least a week.