private seller odometer fraud?

[lsvettek]

Hi I just bought a Harley Davidson motorbike from a private seller. The distance was too far to view so we talked on the phone, he sent pics and videos of the bike. In the ad he stated 10,000 miles. He was taking it to for mot that day and told all was well. When the driver brought the bike and paperwork things were different. It didn't have the expensive seat that he said it had, also mot showed mileage was LESS than previous 2 mots. Is there anything legally I can do about this please? I don't feel comfortable riding a bike with unknown mileage and would have a hard time selling I think with unknown actual mileage

[wales01man]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

Why did you pay for this when the Guy delivered it

[des8]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

Hi and Welcome
Did you purchase the bike without seeing it? ie you relied on the seller's description and paid for it before seeing it?

[lsvettek]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

the seller didnt deliver it, a courier company did. Also when I talked to the seller after mot he said all was fine, when I got the paperwork with the bike it had an advisory for one of the shocks

[lsvettek]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

Yes I relied on the seller's decription in advert, phone and numerous conversations about the bike. He assured me everything was fine with it since he's been into bike since he was very young( he's an older gentleman) He tried to tell me that the mot examiner made a mistake in mileage even though I kept trying to tell him I looked at the odometer when it arrived, I wasnt told that the casing had been changed and most likely the who compnent. Since he sent the old casing in a box. I have been asking about it since I worried about the safety since I dont know the correct mileage, his response was " just go with what's on the MOT " even though he had it listed in ad as 10,000 miles

[des8]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

the vehicle should be as described.
If you are strongly of the opinion that you were seriously misled (and can prove it) and no longer want the bike, tell the seller you want to reverse the deal, or (if acceptable to you) negotiate a partial refund.
If he won't agree you can always try court.
Or you can just climb on the bike and enjoy it!

[lsvettek]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

the seat that was supposed to come with it is a £300 seat, There may be problems with the shocks that wasn't tld about. I have no idea what the actual mileage is. I paid 3,800 for this bike. It wasnt as decribed

[sean5302]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

What is the total mileage on the mileometer fitted to the bike now and the original supplied in the box?
Have you asked the seller to supply the correct seat?
How old is the bike?
You haven't told us which HD model it is. £3800 can be expensive for an 883 but dirt cheap for a VRod.
The advisory about the rear shock is just that. Something may be amiss (oil mist or bit of rust on the spring) but the unit is serviceable and has passed the MoT.
We need more detail to help you.

[lsvettek]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

the mileage now is 5243, it didnt come with another speedo/odometer just the original casing which I didn't know he changed. Yes I've asked bout the mustang seat and hes trying to tell me its a mustang thats on it when clearly its not. The seat is off another stock harley with a logo on the side and bottom. Its a 2004 harley sportster 883. I thought the £3,800 was reasonable considering he said it only had 10,000 miles and had upgraded to vance and hines pipes,retuned, mustang seat, progressive shocks, different bars and and few other things. Ive been in touch with citizens advice.they told me to send him a recorded letter for refund, if he doesnt respond it will escalate to trading standards and I will have police look into mileage fraud. The mileage is less than two previous mots

[sean5302]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

I'm trying to ascertain the correct mileage.
What was the last mileage shown on the previous MoT, plus the 5243 on the bike now? If he used a new replacement speedo and the total is 10,000 it looks correct.
Given that it's an 11-year old bike I think you're on a loser, frankly. It seems like a fair price and I'd echo des8's advice and just get out and enjoy it.

[lsvettek]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

it was 7,548. they guy told me he hasnt replaced the speedo

[sean5302]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

Well, all you need to know is why the current reading is less than that shown on the previous MoT.
Given that you said he's given you the old speedo case, I'd suggest the bike has had a new or secondhand speedo, with the old MoT showing the true mileage and the current speedo mileage being irrelevant.
It really comes down to whether you want to keep the bike or return it, but I don't see any deception with the mileage. A private seller can change a speedometer and should then tell you why the recorded mileage is incorrect.
This chap has actually told you the true mileage is 10,000 so I don't think he's misleading you.
If he hasn't replaced the speedo, why is the mileage wrong? One MoT tester could have written the mileage down wrongly, but I very much doubt it would occur the next time.

[twigthewonderkid]

Re: private seller odometer fraud?

I have had an experience of the MOT tester making a mistake on the mileage, plus other things so even if the bike's true mileage is 10,000 for an 11 year old bike that seems reasonable. I would be concerned if the MOT history showed 20000 and it's now 2000.

However I can see it being quite possible that the tester transposed the first 2 digits and also saw the 2 as a 7 so a real 7500 became 5200. A tester is just like you and I and in trades the motto is measure twice cut once as we make simple mistakes very easily, add to that that testers are generally quite bored from the monotony and attention falls off.
In the ad he could have been making a snap guess at the mileage and rounded it up for extra safe margin. If he was being really clever he could have advertised at the high figure knowing that when you saw the true mileage you'd think you had an even better deal. A variation of the under-promise then over-deliver model.
I have a current issue with a car having a 5000 mile difference between advertised and actual, whilst annoying it makes no difference to the valuation so I've stopped worrying about it...although other matters continue.

As others have said, if the seat issue is a deal breaker then you have the right to pursue it, do you have evidence (web page image?) of the seat when advertised to present against what you received? If you can then put a proposal to the seller.