Help me please

[carolanne]

Hi today I received a second letter from the RLP, I used the template from previous posts and used most of the wording, but still got a second letter, I am very scared and worried, they are still saying they are taking me to court. Also when I was taken to the holding room I was made to sit and told not to move 2 security were blocking the door, I asked for the toilet twice and was ignored, I had an operation on my rectum the week before the incident, so had stiches and really needed the toilet, I feel really upset about this, as well as the shoplifting.. I really don't know what to do next. Please Help.

[des8]

Re: Help me please

The best thing to do is ignore the letter, sit down, calm down and have a cup of tea.
These people are essentially bullies who utter threats.
If by any chance they should ever issue court proceedings come back for advice.

From your description of how they held you they are probably guilty of false arrest and several other offences. Others here will be able to list them for you.

I expect others will be along soon with much the same advice

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help me please

I would add..
An infringement of your rights under the 'Human Rights Act 1998'.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
By denying you the basic rights, such as toilet facilities or medical attention.
Perhaps you could give me a link to your original post so I can read up on events.
You can do this via private message if you want too.
As dees8 said, try not to worry too much about letters.
Threats do not hurt, just the fear of them.
Get rid of your fear and they have no other weapon.

[carolanne]

Re: Help me please

Hi thanks for this,,, I am naturally someone who worries about everything, I know it was a really stupid, pathetic thing to do and can't begin to say how ashamed I am, I feel so bad about myself.
, I am really scared of these letters, they are demanding £147.00, I offered to pay for the goods straight away, not an excuse for taking them in the first place I know. I wasn't arrested as it was a first offence just given a community resolution order which I deserved... I felt really intimidated in this small room, and did really need the loo,,, but dare not keep asking.
I asked the RLS to send me a break down of the money they want but they havn't, just a second letter saying because the letter was downloaded from the internet it wasn't standard? what ever that means,,, it was a letter I wrote myself but did use the lingo of template's I read here, which I found excellent.
They say they are acting on behalf their client Debenhams and say that Debenhams are not prepared to drop the issue, which I don't understand as the security guard said the goods were not damaged and re-saleable.
I feel sick and distressed each time I get a letter and am so nervous of being taken to court.
It helps to get advice from people who may be able to reassure me.
I know it was my action's that got me into this mess so only have myself to blame.
Thank You so much for any advice.

[MissFM]

Re: Help me please

Hi Carolanne

To echo all that's been said above - sit down, take a deep breath and award yourself a cuppa tea (or your favourite tipple).

Then read this: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...h-and-the-lies

Ok, so shoplifting is not a great move but it's hardly murder and certainly not (at least not lawfully) subject to any kind of summary punishment as you describe. Stop worrying, please.....and btw I'm sure others on here would advise you to sue the pants off them for their behaviour, which is way beyond unacceptable. :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[des8]

Re: Help me please

In your first post under a separate thread , which seems to have been missed, and again in post 4 above you mention a "community resolution order".
However you don't mention the police being involved.
Now CROs are issued by the police.
Were the police involved, and if so were you issued with the "offender's" copy?
This copy will state what resolution was agreed both by offender and victim as the way of dealing with the offence.
If you have this document perhaps you would like to post it up, suitably redacted so you can't be identified.
If the police weren't involved ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help me please

Hi Carolanne,

A CRO is an agreement entered into between offender and victim, and, as a result, the officer must explain to both parties that this is a voluntary agreement which will not be directly enforceable by the police in all but the most exceptional circumstances.
The solicitor is obviously trying to get money for himself and his client.
Outcomes can: -Be instant – an apology (in person or via letter) and/or reparation (repairing or paying for the damage/loss);
Be deferred – actions agreed between the parties but completed at a later date; and Involve Restorative techniques.
You already have the information on restorative techniques.
des8 is correct in that police issue a CRO.
Now as the company have not exactly lost anything, I think £147.00 to be excessive.
I do not know your personal financial position, but I will help you to appeal against this charge.
Now a CRO is a mutual agreement between victim and perpetrator, so you do have the right to question anything that you consider to be harsh or unfair.
It's all a question of negotiation with the other side, and then reaching a mutual agreement.
aw:

[des8]

Re: Help me please

There's no problem dealing with their ridiculous demands, whether it is for £14.70 or £147.
There are plenty of examples in this forum where they have been sent packing. Just mention the Oxford case.
However if Debenhams or their security goons are now issuing CROs (or documents purporting to be CROs), have possibly imprisoned the OP,refused to allow use of the toilet they could find themselves in serious trouble.
I would really like to know if the police have been involved or not.

Original post:http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ht=#post445582

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help me please

Hi des8,
From all the information that I have gathered on a CRO,, they are issued by the police.
Instead of the offence being handled by the justice system, a Community Resolution is issued by the police officer called in to deal with the crime, by which the officer decides an appropriate manner for the offender to redeem himself/herself before the victim. The decision is reached by consulting with the victim and must be accepted by the offender in order to take effect. It can consist of receiving advice about their behaviour, a verbal or written apology to the victim, reparation (which can include fixing material damages) or financial compensation. The offender’s history is considered, as well as the possible history between the offender and victim.
As it was a first offence and the goods were returned in a saleable condition, then the police officer decided that a CRO was the appropriate action to take.

[des8]

Re: Help me please

I agree with you, Johnboy.
What is worrying is that OP has not mentioned the police in any of her posts.
People posting on the forum details of similar cases will normally mention if the police have been involved, mainly because they are worried about a criminal record.
Without mention of the police I wonder if Debs or their security are handing out forms purporting to be CROs.
A worrying action if they are.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help me please

I think that what should be taken into consideration, for OP omitting mention of the police, is the mitigating circumstances.
With a previous unblemished record of over 50 years, it has caused shock, disbelief and I'm sure, acute embarrassment to her.
Failure to mention the police is I believe, an attempt to disguise the seriousness of this offence, and the embarrassment and shame she obviously must feel.
I very much doubt that Debs would be so foolish as to attempt handing out fake CROs.

[des8]

Re: Help me please

True, but in the past we have had companies issuing "fake" court papers.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help me please

True, but in the past we have had companies issuing "fake" court papers.

You are of course, absolutely right......

[Johnboy007]

Re: Help me please

A question for you carolanne
Without being too personal, and it may explain your actions and the fact you don't know why you did it.
Is it possible that your are going through menopause?
This was my wife's suggestion as to a possible reason for your unaccounted and sudden unexpected behaviour.
One other point to consider, is the fact that you had an operation just one week before the incident.
It is possible that you could be suffering post-operative stress.
Depression and/or anxiety are often experienced after surgical procedures, at various times.post operatively (immediately or months later). Intensity can range from mild dysphoria (a state of feeling unwell or unhappy; a feeling of emotional and mental discomfort as a symptom of discontentment, restlessness, dissatisfaction, malaise, depression, anxiety or indifference.) to major depressive symptoms.
Post-surgical depression can be from:
The after effects of anesthesia (anesthesia seems to bring out our sensitive sides and our anxiety)
Medications
Post-surgical traumatic stress syndrome
Constipation from the medications
And a general sense of disarray.
Plus being instructed to stay in bed and restricted to low impact activities, doesn't make things any better. Throw on top of that that you are all bruised up and sore. Well, no wonder you're feeling down.
Pain and discomfort can really affect some patients. As mentioned above, the pain medications (and antibiotics) can cause constipation and other temporary digestive problems and can disrupt your system and make you feel bloated and sometimes even cause you abdominal pain.
It would help carolanne, if you feel that any of the above applies to you, to get an immediate check up from your G.P.
If indeed you are suffering, then a medical letter or certificate would be a plus.
It would also help in any negotiations with Debenhams/Solicitor.

[des8]

Re: Help me please

Thanks for the PM, I understand.
I assume RPL have sent their standard fatuous demand, and threatened court and CCJ with lots of mays and mights.
You could send them a one liner letter: "any liability to either you or any company that you represent is denied" following which they will send even more threatening letters.
Even if you don't write to them they will send you scary letters, even some using RED ink.
They will then pass the claim to debt collectors (who have no authority at all) but who use even scarier language, and might even telephone.
They will eventually give up if you don't respond
The whole process seems to take about 8 months.
It is stressful, and is designed to be so they can relieve you of your money.
Just remember you owe RLP nothing.
You now owe Debs nothing (they regained their goods in a condition fit for sale?)

If you wish, in an attempt to avoid the stress, you can pay their demand. Be warned however that this is regarded as a sign of weakness and has been reported as triggering further demands.

The one letter not to ignore will be headed "letter before claim" or "Letter before court action".
Get one of those and come back, but it seems according to the RLP website they haven't done court since July 2012 (just after the Oxford case)