Car Trouble

[Scooby8301]

Hi guys and gals I'm new to the forum and would like to say hi to you all.

We have an ongoing issue with a car dealer who we purchased a second hand car from. It's a long story but I will attempt to give you the condensed version:

We bought the car in May last year after only 3 months of having the car we discovered there was a bad oil leak while the car was having some routine maintenance done. The car was just outside the dealers 3 month warranty but it had been there a while as the engine was saturated. We took it back to the deal and after a log drawn out argument they agreed to fix it but would have to cover some of the cost the bill was £650 of which we covered just over £200 (basically we paid for the repair but on paper it looks like they covered most of it as they used their in house garage) we were never told what was changed/ repaired and no invoice was given, we insisted on an additional 3 months warranty which they begrudging agreed to. If we would have had our choice we would have taken it to our regular garage but they would only fix it in-house.

That was the end of the matter or so we thought.......

Roughly 3 months later the DPF required some maintenance so we took it back to the garage we use to get this repaired and we were informed the oil leak is still there and coming from the same location. We went back to the dealer as it was still within the 3 month warranty we had and they fobbed us off saying the 3 months started after the initial 3 months warranty finished and not when the repair was carried out meaning the fault had occurred outside of the new warranty period.

After a lot of battling they agreed to take a look and they said it is a new oil leak and that it was nothing to do with them and they were point blank refusing to look at it despise us paying to get the oil leak fixed and it being with the 3 month warranty period they gave us. They point black refused to do anything about it.

We have been trying to get an invoice of them for months to begin to open a case against them to get the matter resolved but we get passed around and fobbed off (ring such and such, he is out, you need to speak to the garage, you need to speak to the dealer, the paperwork has been archived ect)

Now there has been catastrophic engine failure caused by this ongoing issue (big end bearing has gone) this has been confirmed by 2 garages the dealer is once again refusing to do anything saying it was caused by a new oil leak and not the initial one they did not repair correctly (as confirmed by an independent garage)

No my wife is 8 and half months pregnant are we are using one car which is causing no end of problems with work, school run and just general day to day living.

Would I have a case going to trading standards or small claims courts as the dealer is saying they will do nothing as the failure is caused by a new leak and it’s up to us to prove it’s the original leak.

Where should I go from here? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[bluebottle]

Re: Car Trouble

I would go to Trading Standards in the first instance. What was the vehicle's MOT status when you bought it?

[Wombats]

Re: Car Trouble

Probably worth asking what the age of the vehicle is, how many miles it has done, did it come with a full or even part service history (up to what mileage), any previous invoices for oil leaks, did you have the chance to inspect and test drive, did you go the first three months without opening the bonnet to do regular fluid checks etc..., what price did you pay for the car, petrol or diesel, make and model, do you have any advert or invoice or anything from when you saw and bought the vehicle?

Sorry to bombard with questions, but all potentially relevant.

[bluebottle]

Re: Car Trouble

Probably worth asking what the age of the vehicle is, how many miles it has done, did it come with a full or even part service history (up to what mileage), any previous invoices for oil leaks, did you have the chance to inspect and test drive, did you go the first three months without opening the bonnet to do regular fluid checks etc..., what price did you pay for the car, petrol or diesel, make and model, do you have any advert or invoice or anything from when you saw and bought the vehicle?

Sorry to bombard with questions, but all potentially relevant.

Absolutely, Wombats. Hwever, the vehicle's MOT status on the day of the status is important also.

The reason I mention MOT status is a case where my sister and her husband bought a late used car from a dealer with a brand-new MOT some years go. Within two weeks of purchase, a strange noise developed when the steering was operated. My BIL's younger brother, who is an experienced MOT tester and mechanic and who did not carry out the MOT, knew what the noise was and rang VOSA who wanted to know the ins and outs of a cat's hind quarters, i.e. who sold it, who MOT'd it, etc.. The power steering pump, which is an MOT item, had failed and should have been spotted when the MOT was carried out, but wasn't. The mere mention of VOSA had the car back to the dealer's premises and repaired with brand new parts and an extended warranty within 48 hours.

[Scooby8301]

Re: Car Trouble

Vehicle is 9 years old 2005 and has done 71,000 miles it came with part service history and from what I can see there is no evidence if any paperwork regarding an oil leak. We didn't inspect the car but my wife did take it for a test drive. We paid just over £5,000 for the car and its a diesel Mazda 5. There is no history of the advert. Please feel free to bombard me with as many questions as you like.

[Scooby8301]

Re: Car Trouble

The car was MOT'd 2 months prior to us buying the car.

[bluebottle]

Re: Car Trouble

If you are a member of the AA or RAC, get them to carry out a thorough inspection of the vehicle asap. I am beginning to wonder if the vehicle you have purchased has been "clocked", that is, the mileage turned back. I would not expect the sort of faults you have been told the vehicle had with only 71,000 miles on the clock.

[Scooby8301]

Re: Car Trouble

We have been advised to write a formal letter and send recorded delivery stating all the facts and take it from there. What it boils down to our word against there's regarding the repair and the oil leak they failed to repair. They say its a new one but our regular mechanic said it's the same one. I just need to find out who needs to prove the facts, the dealer is saying its down to us to prove its the same leak and we are saying they need to prove its a different leak. It's just a nightmare and couldn't have some at a worse time but it doesn't look like it will be resolved anytime soon.

[bluebottle]

Re: Car Trouble

Scooby,

I would seriously consider having the AA or RAC give your vehicle a thorough inspection and checks and a report as to whether the sort of oil leaks that have occurred are consistent with a vehicle that has allegedly done 71,000 miles. If it is shown the vehicle has been "clocked", the dealer is in serious trouble.

[Wombats]

Re: Car Trouble

Hi Scooby,

How was the vehicle paid for? Cash, HP, Credit Card, Debit Card ......?

How did you pay your part of the 'repair'?

Is the garage a member of the 'Good Garage' scheme?

Can you record a phone call with them asking about the work carried out when they first allegedly repaired the oil leak? This would give you some proof that some work had been done and their refusal to tell you what - most mobiles have a record facility on them nowadays.

I disagree with BB. Unfortunately catastrophic failures can and do occur at any time. You can check mileages quite a way back now online looking at previous MOT's. A Google should give you the address to go to.

This is not one to answer to the garage, but for our benefit, did you open the bonnet during the first three, or next three months of owning the car to do fluid checks? Did you notice any oil at all, even a minor leak, underneath the car?

I think the onus is with them to prove things, but it is only think, not know. However, there are avenues to pursue, it's a case of identifying which is best for you.

[Scooby8301]

Re: Car Trouble

We paid via debit card and the repair was paid for via cheque. They aren't a member of any sort of trade association. We didn't check anything under the bonnet but all the fluid were ok. The oil was still in the dipstick when we discovered the leak, it's my wife's car so she didn't pay much attention to that sort of stuff as long as it drives with no odd noises she is happy. Yesterday we had an invoice turn up after 4 months of asking. We have a few options:

1) Pursue them for the car not being fit for purpose having a leak within first three months and within dealer warranty.

2) Oil leak not being correctly repaired resulting in engine failing

3) oil leak reoccurring during second disputed warranty period.

i think we have a case as I feel we haven't been treated fairly but it doesn't help in the meantime as we are stuck with one car.

[bluebottle]

Re: Car Trouble

That is fair comment, Wombats. I, too, have come across relatively new vehicles where a catastrophic failure has occurred. One was a tri-axle refuse collection vehicle that caught fire after a fluid line split, the fluid hit the hot exhaust and ignited. The truck was completely gutted. The other was a brand new car the owner had taken back to the main dealer for its first service following delivery. The mechanics drained the oil out and forgot to replace it with fresh oil. The owner got a short distance down the road from the main dealer's premises before the oil warning light came on. The engine was completely wrecked. The main dealer refused to do anything, but the manufacturer wouldn't have it and made them replace the car with a brand-new car.

[Wombats]

Re: Car Trouble

There is a chance (not a guarantee) that if you are still within 120 days of becoming aware of the problem (or arguably the problem reoccurring) you could do a chargeback against your debit card.

Have a read of this link:

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...use-chargeback

Chargebacks are much less well known debit card 'versions' (they're not at all the same really) of the Section 75 protection given when paying with a credit card.

[Scooby8301]

Re: Car Trouble

The problem is that its outside the 120 day window now

[Wombats]

Re: Car Trouble

Unfortunately I think we come back to Trading Standards then, and the argument starts over whether or not the goods were of satisfactory quality when you bought them (and indeed AFTER the initial repair work). Beofre going to TS, I'd still try and get a recorded call with, or recorded visit to the garage asking what work was done, how much it had come to, the fact you paid £200 towards this (as proven by bank statements) just so you have an admission on record they did do work to fix an oil leak. An independent report from your normal mechanic would be helpful if they're prepared to supply one, stating the oil leak was from exactly the same place as previously thus the repair (likely to be a replacement seal I think) was not carried out correctly, or using cheap OEM parts.

Once you have as much of this as possible, go to TS (asap) and leave it in their capable hands. It is very difficult indeed with second hand cars knowing what is reasonable and not reasonable, especially as a leak of this nature is almost certainly not something that would just suddenly happen, but would happen as a result of insufficient oil, thus the bearings perishing. It will be argued that if the oil had been checked the engine would not have suffered this failure - not what you want to hear, I know, but it is likely to be argued, possibly correctly.