Coat held in bar

[callume]

Hi all!

I've seen a similar topic to this elsewhere but I have a slightly more specific question:

So, a little while back I left my jacket in a club's cloakroom. This was a paid-for service, and I received a little raffle ticket to reclaim it later on.

However, I left the club to wait with some friends whilst they got a taxi home, though I left my coat in the club. When I returned to the club, the door-people wouldn't let me back in. I pointed out that my coat was still in there and that I wanted to get it back (I presented the raffle ticket). Suffice to say that I was told where to put the raffle ticket and was not allowed in, nor would anyone fetch my coat.

My question is, do the club or the bouncers have the ability to refuse to allow me to get my coat back in that way?

Also, out of curiosity, if the situation had been one where I had simply left my jacket on a chair or something and wanted to retrieve it (without having paid for the cloakroom) would the club be required to allow me to retrieve my property?

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I have a semi-related but not particularly relevant to this forum question, too, which has been bugging me for a while. It would be great if someone could point me in the right direction for researching this:

In order to get my coat back, I had to hand the raffle ticket to my other friends, who had stayed in the club. There is a small smoking area that the club provides. I walked into this area to hand my friend the ticket and, as I did so, a bouncer very forcibly dragged me out of the smoking area without saying a word to me. I'm almost certain that the manner in which he dragged me away was grossly unlawful, but my question is: can clubs extend their smoking area into the pavement (as this one did), and could it be considered trespassing on my part to enter it? There is an open 'gate' in the fence (by gate I mean an absence of fencing) that I walked through the gain access. I was genuinely under the impression that, as it was a part of the pavement and was not fully cordoned off, I was entitled to be there.

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I realise this was a mouthful, and I'm thoroughly grateful for you reading this far.

Thanks in advance!

[teaboy2]

Re: Coat held in bar

First of all, Refusing you access to your coat may amount to trespass to property and breach of contract in regards to the service provided.

As for your second question. If the smoking area is on public land (Check this with council) then the bouncer had no right to evict you and actually committed assault and trespass to persons by doing so.

Did you actually get your coat back?

Either way i would be inclined to make a formal complaint to the night clubs management, advising them that you are consider legal options as off now, but shall await their response and formal apology along with offer of compensation for the distress you were caused! Include a photo of the raffle ticket too regardless of whether you got your coat back. If you didn't get your coat back then advise them the cost of coat and you want compensating for that too, or for the return of your coat, which must be in the same condition it was in when you left it, i.e. not damaged and not dirty. Also quote to what i said about trespass to property, breach of contract and trespass to person (Assault) by the bouncer.

[callume]

Re: Coat held in bar

Thank you for the prompt and insightful reply!

I've dug into this a little overnight and would I be correct in thinking that this would in fact amount to conversion? I'm having a little trouble differentiating between conversion and trespass to goods, though.

Yes, I did get my coat back, thank you for asking! But only by smuggling the ticket to my friend in the smoking area.

I will be writing a letter to the council to confirm whether the street is public property or otherwise.

Also, in frantically researching this issue, it's come to my attention that, as trespassing is a civil wrong, even if I were on their property by being in the smoking area the staff wouldn't be able to lay a finger on me either way. Am I right in thinking this or am I missing something?

Thanks again!

[teaboy2]

Re: Coat held in bar

Thank you for the prompt and insightful reply!

I've dug into this a little overnight and would I be correct in thinking that this would in fact amount to conversion? I'm having a little trouble differentiating between conversion and trespass to goods, though.

Yes, I did get my coat back, thank you for asking! But only by smuggling the ticket to my friend in the smoking area.

I will be writing a letter to the council to confirm whether the street is public property or otherwise.

Also, in frantically researching this issue, it's come to my attention that, as trespassing is a civil wrong, even if I were on their property by being in the smoking area the staff wouldn't be able to lay a finger on me either way. Am I right in thinking this or am I missing something?

Thanks again!

Hi - No its not conversion as conversion is when, "The wrongdoer converts the goods to his or her own use and excludes the owner from use and enjoyment of them". So its merely trespass. Though as you got the coat back, then its not trespass, but simply a basic breach of contract, refusing to allow you to collect your coat in which you had paid for them to keep safe until you collect the coat upon leaving.

As for them man handling you if it were their property, that depends on whether you became threatening, abusive or aggressive to them, in which case they would be legally permitted to us reasonable force to restrain and/or evict you. But if it is public property, then it is assault they committed, unless you lashed out first, in which case they'd have been acting in self defense and the use of reasonable force would be permitted.