Coach Company protecting their own interest?

[Magrew]

My stepson was in a coach accident. Unfortunately there were two fatalities. The coach driver was also seriously injured and was lucky to survive.

Five others suffered significant injuries but not life threatening. D was wearing his seatbelt so he got off quite lightly. He had skinned knuckles and banged his face into the seat in front on impact. He thought everything was ok.

The accident was in a remote area so the coach firm arranged another coach to pick all those that weren't displaying any injury and took them to their final destination. Only those that were obviously injured were taken to hospital for a medical examination and treatment.

That was three weeks ago. Over the past week D has been complaining of sore heads, problems with his ears and jaw, sore kneck and having great difficulty sleeping due to pain and discomfort. We finally persuaded him to visit a doctor. As you may have already guessed he was daignosed with whiplash and prescribed some strong painkillers.

Now I am not going to ask the obvious question about personal injury claims. What I am more interested in is did the coach company have a duty of care? Should they not have taken the precautionary measure of arranging that all passengers were given a medical examination? It was a high speed collision, whiplash is one thing but there may have been a possibility of internal injuries that may have been life threatening.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

Hiya hun,

I know from a Public Transport pov that the duty of care is to ask the passenger if they wish to go to a hospital etc, however, and I'm not siding with the coach company (obv i dont know who they were) in a situation where there are fatalities, the "walking wounded" are normally asked if they feel fit to travel further and advised to attend a hospital, this is mainly to get them out of further danger (wounded, shocked passengers walking out on to main roads/railway lines etc) that way when the paramedics etc are dealing with the aftermath, they are able to deal with those that need them the most.

From professional interest, did your son have any unexplained marks on his hands/head/arm, like a X in pen or maybe a letter C? You may have dismissed these marks as innocent doodling on the journey, or as the remnants of a reminder message (Call Dad when you get home, that sort of thing).
These marks are a checks from a medical professional saying they are fit for travel.

Unfortunatly with whiplash, there are delayed symptoms so your son may have been asked are you ok, do you need a doctor and said I'm fine I want to go home.

Again, unfortunatly there are those that kinda slip through the net, even with the tradegy of a railcrash there are some that are so shocked they go about their daily business without us knowing they were on the train in the first place.

[miliitant]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

i know with myself, when i was hit from behind i did not display any whiplash symptoms for 7 days. it ended up the insurance company sending me to a sports physiotherapist for a month

i had delt with people at work who have been involved in accidents, one had a broken ankle but did not go and see a doctor till after a week

the moral is

symptoms to not allways appear at the time of the accident

i am surprised a paramedic did not just triage all the passengers before allowing them onto the other coach though

[CleverClogs]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

I'd say that the coach company had a duty to ensure their so-called driver was not secretly working for Al Queda.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

Hi Millitant,

the triage at the scene of an accident involving Public Transports is,

Immediate Danger: those who are unconcious, in danger of death, obv have paramedic and first aiders attention.

Immoblie Wounded, they can be dealt with (kept calm) by Approved Persons first aiders until the ambulances arrive

Walking Wounded: When we say walking wounded we mean cuts, bruises, shock (the OPs son for example), they are asked if they feel dizzy, have any pain etc if they do show anything needing medical treatment on scene, they are guided to a safe place (in the case of a road accident they are normally sat well away from the crash site for fear of rubber neckers) if they seem like they need a plaster and a cuddle (my words not the emergency services) they are got to a place of safety (bus terminus/train station etc) and the staff at the station meet the passengers, re assure them, try and talk them in to getting assistance but we cannot insist unless the wounds are significant.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

Were the police or the ambulance service involved at all ?

[bluebottle]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

The Ambulance Service would have triaged all passengers at the scene - standard procedure for RTCs involving multiple casualties. The fact there were fatalities means the police would have to be involved as this will result in a Coroner's inquest and in such cases, the police act under the jurisdiction of H.M. Coroner for the area in which the RTC occurred. What Puffrose and Militant say about some injuries not being immediately evident and coming to light some days later is correct and not uncommon.

Drawing on my experience, Magrew, you need to speak to the police force for the area in which the incident occurred and find out at what stage they are at with their investigations into the incident. You need to speak to the Roads Policing Unit. My gut-feeling is that there are two lines of investigation going on with this incident; one is on behalf of H.M. Coroner in respect of the fatalities and the other is as to what caused the coach to become involved and who was responsible. Obviously, the police will want to do what is best for those who lost their lives in this incident as well as ensure that whoever or whatever was responsible is dealt with and addressed.

My advice is to liaise with the police and find out where they are with investigations. Once it becomes clear who or what was responsible for the incident, then issues of duty of care can be addressed.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

In Scotland, Coroner responsibilities go instead to the Procurator Fiscal

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

I will post separately about civil personal injury claims in the next few days, I am a bit up to my eyeballs at the moment

[Magrew]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

Walking Wounded: When we say walking wounded we mean cuts, bruises, shock (the OPs son for example), they are asked if they feel dizzy, have any pain etc if they do show anything needing medical treatment on scene, they are guided to a safe place (in the case of a road accident they are normally sat well away from the crash site for fear of rubber neckers) if they seem like they need a plaster and a cuddle (my words not the emergency services) they are got to a place of safety (bus terminus/train station etc) and the staff at the station meet the passengers, re assure them, try and talk them in to getting assistance but we cannot insist unless the wounds are significant.

All that were mobile were taken to the side of the road. The whole road was shut for about 12 hours. He was asked if he was injured. He said he was fine.

[Magrew]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

Were the police or the ambulance service involved at all ?

Yes all emergency services were involved. It was a major incident.

[Magrew]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

Drawing on my experience, Magrew, you need to speak to the police force for the area in which the incident occurred and find out at what stage they are at with their investigations into the incident. You need to speak to the Roads Policing Unit. My gut-feeling is that there are two lines of investigation going on with this incident; one is on behalf of H.M. Coroner in respect of the fatalities and the other is as to what caused the coach to become involved and who was responsible. Obviously, the police will want to do what is best for those who lost their lives in this incident as well as ensure that whoever or whatever was responsible is dealt with and addressed.

My advice is to liaise with the police and find out where they are with investigations. Once it becomes clear who or what was responsible for the incident, then issues of duty of care can be addressed.

As it happens it is likely that I will know the officers involved. I used to be called in by this force to conduct surveys of fatal and potentially fatal accidents. If need be I will make enquiries. Thanks BB

[Magrew]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

I will post separately about civil personal injury claims in the next few days, I am a bit up to my eyeballs at the moment

Springer your help is appreciated but please do not put yourself to any trouble on this one. We are familiar with the PIC aspects. Two years ago D broke his back in another accident in which he was a passenger. It took almost the two years but he was compensated. He had just fully recovered when he got in this accident. The concern is if the whiplash has aggrevated the old injury.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

hiya Magrew hun,

thanks for getting back with that

Unless the passenger says that they wish to go to the hospital, on scene staff cannot insist they are treated, unless they are obviously in need of attention, for instance if they say they are fine but have a visable burn, we can call and say This gentlemen needs to be seen, but we cannot say you HAVE to be seen. that is up to the paitent, in the case of someone under 16 travelling without a parent, if they are OBVIOUSLY under 16 we can say that we think it is in the paitents best interest to go to the hospital, and advise a parent of the location, however if your face to face with a 6'3 14 year old boy in jeans and a hoody its very difficult to tell a persons age.

May I suggest that along with his physio, he attends a short counselling course, I didnt have any and I now have PTSD, yes I have been on the other side of the page and assisted at a multiple fatality.

If your son had any pen marks on his skin he was passed as fit to travel. Sometimes (and people this is quite useful to know) a medic will write P on the skin as in had paracetamol, M is morphine, i think I is ibroprofen, its a way to tell the hospital what meds they have had at the road/track side.

If you see someone at a crash site with a D written on them they are diabetic.

oh the stuff you learn at work!!

if your son has declined treatment then legally the coach company has followed its chain of care, its literally in the passengers hands if they want the treatment, i know its not really the answer you want hun, sorry

[Magrew]

Re: Coach Company protecting their own interest?

Puffrose, on the contrary it is exactly the answer I want to know. If there is one thing I have learnt in life is that it is important to identify what the real issues are and pursue those. I am pleased that the matter does not become more complicated than it need be because then it will just take longer to get a final conclusion.

I have made contact today (I was amazed to get an email back on a Sunday) with the firm that handled the matter of his back injury and we shall see where that takes us.

Thanks again everyone. The knowledge and cameradery on this site is very heartening.

Just for your interest this was the accident.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-18370602