Drink Driving

[labman]

Re: Drink Driving

I would like to think that if all the signs were that he was settled in for the night a judge would think twice about banning him.

On a similar line i googled this to see if i could find i legislation etc, and discovered you can be arrested for drunk in charge of a wheelchair! OOPS guilty as charged when i was 18!!!

It was YOU!!!!!!!!!

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Drink Driving

omg yeh!

When i was 18 i had my legs smashed up pretty badly, so i got put in a wheelchair (against my will) for 2 months. So me and my mate Paul went out drinking for his 23rd and we got.. erm.. i believe the technical term is wazzocked, and had to get home, me in a wheelchair and him totally blind. Yes totally blind.
Is the road clear paul?
How the hell to i know.. I'm blind... is the road clear you?
How the hell do I know I'm blind DRUNK!!

[bluebottle]

Re: Drink Driving

And I would imagine sleeping in a motorhome would be deemed a reasonable occasion to be in 'charge' of the keys but not planning on driving.

Whereas a sleepover in a Fiat Cinquecerrappo would not?

If only it were that simple. Unfortunately, the onus is on the driver to prove there is no likelihood of them driving whilst unfit to drive through drink or drugs. In the scenario described by Labman, the police would be able to conduct a test if a public road lead to the car park. If the road and car park were both private (not adopted and not maintained at public expense), then the police would be on a sticky wicket legally.

[bluebottle]

Re: Drink Driving

I ask on behalf of a friend who has just been done for this. He was not actually asleep, but was intending staying the night, and all signs were that they were settled in for the night. However the local plod, possibly being over zealous, did him and he is now facing a ban.

I just wondered what his chances were of submitting a decent defence.

Thanks for your replies so far!

Short of employing Mr Loophole, it is going to be down to the judge who hears the case at the magistrates court. My advice would be to ensure he has legal representation. Judges in magistrates courts do get concerned when defendants try to represent themselves, due to the complex nature of Criminal and Traffic Law. It is not like it is in the civil courts where judges tend to be intolerant of those representing themselves.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Drink Driving

can he not argue that the mobile home was fully equipt for sleeping and he had explained he was bedding down for the night?

[Galahad]

Re: Drink Driving

Quite simply, if the Police cannot find the keys to start the vehicle, they cannot charge you with being drunk and in charge of a motor vehicle, nor can they charge you with drink driving.

They are not likely to turn over a motorhome to find them.

[labman]

Re: Drink Driving

Quite simply, if the Police cannot find the keys to start the vehicle, they cannot charge you with being drunk and in charge of a motor vehicle, nor can they charge you with drink driving.

They are not likely to turn over a motorhome to find them.

He's been charged - as said above the offence in being in charge of a motor vehicle, not drink driving. Not sure when the court date is, but they're normally pretty quick.

[bluebottle]

Re: Drink Driving

Although he may have been charged, that does not, in itself, mean the case will go to court. The case file has to go to the CPS first and they can NFA it, in which case, that's the end of the matter.

[labman]

Re: Drink Driving

Thanks BB. I didn't know that, and I suspect he doesn't. He's s***ing himself at the moment!

[missfoxee]

Re: Drink Driving

hmmm well I heard that you could be done for simply "being in charge of a motor vehicle whilst under the influence" I have heard of cases where people have slept in their cars and the key was nowhere near the ignition but they have been done under that clause, I have also heard of someone who quite simply went to their car to retrieve a coat and a bag when a police car pulled up and it was up to the person to prove they had no intention of driving but well police being police need I say no more

[bluebottle]

Re: Drink Driving

hmmm well I heard that you could be done for simply "being in charge of a motor vehicle whilst under the influence" I have heard of cases where people have slept in their cars and the key was nowhere near the ignition but they have been done under that clause, I have also heard of someone who quite simply went to their car to retrieve a coat and a bag when a police car pulled up and it was up to the person to prove they had no intention of driving but well police being police need I say no more

I'm afraid that is the law and the onus being on the defendant to prove there was no likelihood of them driving whilst under the influence has been the case for over 30 years.

[Galahad]

Re: Drink Driving

He's been charged - as said above the offence in being in charge of a motor vehicle, not drink driving. Not sure when the court date is, but they're normally pretty quick.

Right then, assuming he didn't give up the keys or have them on him, what make and model motor home is it, and how old is it?

The reason for asking is simple. Since 1993, most manufacturers have used chip/transponder immobiliser systems for their vehicles, meaning, that if the key doesn't have the correct chip in it, the vehicle won't start, which defeats hot wiring.

Other manufacturers use remote plips for security, if you don't have the plip, you can't disarm the security, therefore you can't drive away.

So, did he have the keys? Did the Police find the keys?

If they didn't have the keys, and the security was such that the vehicle could not possibly have been driven without said keys, then he can't be construed as drunk and in charge of a vehicle, because without the keys, he can't physically do anything.

If the Police didn't find the keys, is it possible he 'lost' them and then 'found' them at a later time? Bearing in mind that he was drunk and intoxicated would be reasonably plausible that he lost the keys.... no keys... no drivey.... no drivey... no drunk and in charge of a vehicle because he would therefore be no more in charge of the vehicle as anyone else in the motorhome.

Was there more than one person in the motorhome?

[labman]

Re: Drink Driving

The police found the keys as they were just left on the side, but in the back of the Motorhome. The 'driver' is a sensible man, he was totally coherent and co-operative, but was over the limit for driving which he had no intention of doing. There were no others in the vehicle who had passed their tests.

Im speaking to him tomorrow, so should have an update of what is happening. I suspect the police don't do weekends and bank holidays like most of the rest of us.

[Galahad]

Re: Drink Driving

The police found the keys as they were just left on the side, but in the back of the Motorhome. The 'driver' is a sensible man, he was totally coherent and co-operative, but was over the limit for driving which he had no intention of doing. There were no others in the vehicle who had passed their tests.

Im speaking to him tomorrow, so should have an update of what is happening. I suspect the police don't do weekends and bank holidays like most of the rest of us.

Right then, any chance of providing a Google Map area of where he was staying then?

Was it just his motorhome or were there others as part of the group?

I really don't see how the Police can push this one through. They know full well that the motorhome is full of witnesses, and they will likely provide statements that back up your friend that there was no intention to drive anywhere, i'd be VERY surprised if this gets past CPS and finds its way to court.

[labman]

Re: Drink Driving

Skills don't extend to posting up Google maps, but it was in the large layby on the right hand side as you drive from Beaumaris towards Penmon Point on Anglesey, probably about three miles out of Beaumaris at a guess. It's a layby set off the road, right by the sea, with a proper grass verge separating the entrances to the layby. You can't miss it on a Google map, there isn't another like it.