Removals company trying to charge extra and refusing to deliver without payment

[scc25]

This is in England. Basically the movers are claiming that there was extra belongings and are demanding extra money for a second delivery. (They part-delivered half already but did not have a vehicle available for the second half so advised there would be a delay. They've used this delay as an opportunity to ask for more money.) This is despite them sending a guy round to do a survey as part of the quote process. Surely they are obligated to complete the delivery?


Firstly, can you pay "under duress" and claim it back either via chargeback or court? (Which is the easier option?) Secondly, would I be right in assuming there's a good chance that I'll win in small claims court given that they sent a guy round to look at everything? All they can claim is that a few individual items that were supposed to get sold (so were marked as excluded) came along as well (at the same time, a truck full of other stuff was taken away by a waste removal company so overall there's less than when he came round.) These individual extra items would not warrant an extra vehicle and any costs associated with that.

Thanks in advance!

[islandgirl]

Do you have a quote in writing?

[Pezza54]

Often on removal day there is a chain of properties being sold (money transferred) on the same day, and there isn't time for a removal company to cause a delay. So the removal company should either have a big enough lorry for all the items or 2 or 3 vehicles loaded at the same time,
Holding the customer to ransom, pay us more or we won't finish the job, is not the way to treat a customer.

The company boss could have said, sorry this is going to cost more, you should have told me about the extra items as soon as you knew you couldn't sell them. The items you originally wanted moving would have fitted in one van/lorry (one trip)

How much extra were you forced to pay?
Did you pay the extra at the time by your bank card?

A court may decide that the company was entitled to extra payment, but the amount should be reasonable for the additional items

[atticus]

You will also need to study the terms and conditions in your contract with the removals company.

Have you asked them on what basis they consider themselves entitled to charge more?

[PallasAthena]

So two questions here, are they entitled to charge extra money, and are they entitled to hold on to your goods until you pay the extra money?

The answer to the second question is probably yes, they are entitled to retain your goods until you pay if you do in fact owe the extra money. It's often in the t&c of removal companies but even if it isn't the general right exists in English law ("the right of lien").

From a practical point of view they hold the cards. If you don't pay they'll just leave your stuff gathering dust in their warehouse and then demand extra for storage! So paying 'under duress' to get your stuff back and arguing in court later is what I would do if ever wanted to see my stuff again any time soon.

Someone here can hopefully suggest the form of words you should use to pay 'under duress'.

[Pezza54]

The British Association of Removers model terms and conditions state the remover may apply additional charges for removing or storing items not included in the quotation (clause 1.2.7)
Had you replied to the remover that you weren't going to pay any extra for the additional items the remover would have been within his rights to leave these items behind
The same applies to appliances not disconnected, hazardous materials etc

[islandgirl]

Which is why I asked whether a written quotation had been given which could help to clarify the issue

[Pezza54]

[QUOTE=PallasAthena;n1704457


Someone here can hopefully suggest the form of words you should use to pay 'under duress'.[/QUOTE]

If there is a dispute about the validity of a payment or the amount of a payment, then the payor can pay "under protest"
Paying under protest reserves the legal right to contest the bill after the payor has made payment

[scc25]

Do you have a quote in writing?

Yes, it specifically excludes some of these items but they fitted into the second vehicle on the second day that they needed anyway. One of the things they did specifically include ended up getting sold so didn't come but they have a bit in their terms and conditions saying you can't swap items even though size-wise it was a good like for like swap for one of these items that did come. The quote doesn't specify a certain square footage or volume of items so surely by definition that means they are quoting to take the whole house's belongings?

[scc25]

Often on removal day there is a chain of properties being sold (money transferred) on the same day, and there isn't time for a removal company to cause a delay. So the removal company should either have a big enough lorry for all the items or 2 or 3 vehicles loaded at the same time,
Holding the customer to ransom, pay us more or we won't finish the job, is not the way to treat a customer.

The company boss could have said, sorry this is going to cost more, you should have told me about the extra items as soon as you knew you couldn't sell them. The items you originally wanted moving would have fitted in one van/lorry (one trip)

How much extra were you forced to pay?
Did you pay the extra at the time by your bank card?

A court may decide that the company was entitled to extra payment, but the amount should be reasonable for the additional items

That's the thing, there had been no mention of further payment until after they started delaying the delivery of the second day's stuff. (It was supposed to be delivered a week later but they keep putting it back, it's like someone back at the office had the idea to leverage the situation.)
It hasn't been paid yet, but it's over £1000 extra, they'll probably use distance as an excuse. Would a chargeback be a better option and then they can decide if they want to take me to court?

[Pezza54]

The removal "surveyor" will normally use their experience, after viewing and making notes of the items to be moved (possibly filming or photos), to assess what size van or lorry to use.
Large flat packed carboard boxes are often given to the customer a few weeks before moving date so the customer can pack small items
As the surveyor isn't going to open cupboards, wardrobes, drawers, the customer is provided with plenty of boxes. The surveyor can't be sure how many the customer will use, so selects a lorry size with hopefully spare capacity

[scc25]

You will also need to study the terms and conditions in your contract with the removals company.

Have you asked them on what basis they consider themselves entitled to charge more?

I haven't specifically asked that question but their main argument seems to be that there was more belongings than they thought, even insinuating that many items were hidden or removed from the property for the quote, then added later. They sneakily took photos and now their survey guy is claiming that he never saw anything in the photos. (Even if he were being honest there's no way that he would remember every item or items that were in cupboards etc.) Given that the waste disposal company took a ton away right in front of them I don't think they've got a strong argument there.

Looking at their T&Cs, their only real avenue would be the 2/3 excluded items coming along as well. But since the second day's vehicle was necessary anyway I don't see how that will get them anywhere.

Would you advise a credit card chargeback and then they can decide if they want to take me to court?

[atticus]

No, I would not advise that. Why pay if you are going to dispute the amount?

[Pezza54]

If the company is not using BAR's model terms and conditions, can you post the terms in the contract relating to additional items not in the quotation, storage charges

[scc25]

No, I would not advise that. Why pay if you are going to dispute the amount?

Because they will hold the belongings to ransom and then try to charge storage costs on top. I assume a court date would take months.