Car being sold that I own

[Squirmy]

Hi all,

Hoping I can get some advice on my situation.

In 2014 (March I believe) I put my car into a garage to look at it. It was drivable but I had blown the engine.
I was given a quote of about £1500 for the work. I said I would get back to them.
I had previously had about £1000 worth of work done at same garage in the preceding 6 months.
At the time I was suffering from mental health issues and really lost control of my affairs. I didn’t get back to the garage and they didn’t get back in touch with me. At no point where they given consent to carry out any work on the car.
As time passed I just assumed they had broken the car for parts and I had missed notification from the DVLA. As I never received any annual reminders to SORN the car this only strengthened by assumptions.
About a year ago I went to go see the garage on the off chance they may still have the car (I wasn’t hopeful) but they had ceased trading.
Fast forward to a couple of weeks or so ago and I see the car is for sale at a completely different garage. The engine has been fixed.
I contact DVLA who tell me I’m still the registered keeper
I check and the car hasn’t been MOT’d or driven anywhere since I had it (mileage etc checks out)
I contact the seller and he tells me the garage sold the car to his mate about 3 years later to cover storage costs and for work carried out and he purchased it in good faith and that was that.
So firstly the garage did not get in touch with me to say they were selling the car to cover any costs or give me an opportunity to do so. I’ve lived in the same house for the last 21 years with the same phone number and as I had work done there before they knew how to get hold of me
After my contact a “third party” called me and we spoke. I said that I was not unreasonable and would agree to pay repair costs and indeed some level of reasonable storage costs. They were going to get back in touch with me with what that looked like but never did.
I have spoken with two solicitor firms. Both have said that the car is mine. But trying to get a solicitor firm to act on my behalf is surprisingly difficult.
My home insurance won’t cover this type of contractual dispute but there advice line said things like “tort of interference of goods act”, “tangible goods”, “conversion of goods”, and that the bailee had to take reasonable care.

In all honesty my head was spinning with it all. I just want the car back, I loved that car (it’s rare but not super valuable ~£7-10k). All I want guidance on is a) is it correct that the car is mine. And if so what do I do about it? I don’t know if I should just issue court proceedings but I suspect a judge wouldn’t look favourably on me going straight to court? In an ideal world a solicitor would sort this all out for me (write to the garage selling it, making my offer of reasonable costs covered, and then issue a court summons if need be - where I would withdraw my offer of reasonable costs and let a judge decide) I don’t mind paying but the first solicitors were concerned about the costs and being equitable. I’m don’t mind paying but I suppose they have a duty to be equitable?

I’m happy enough to do the leg work but it doesn’t seem this is something a non-legal bod like myself can get to grips with.

All help and guidance very much appreciated.

[islandgirl]

I am sure experts will be here to help soon but I would think the first thing is to prevent it being sold! Write to the seller explaining that you are the registered keeper and owner and do not agree to any sale. State that you and the seller will have to resolve matters but that in the meantime the car must not be sold and that you will not agree to a change of keeper. You could possibly also notify DVLA?

[Squirmy]

Thank you so much, that does seem sensible. I’ve verbally informed the DVLA of this and they said they’d make a note (probably just ignored me). I was thinking something along the lines of a letter before action? I really would prefer it to come from a solicitor or someone with a legal brain to say what I should and shouldn’t write. The key points I’d like to cover would be:

1. State I am the legal owner (good title?) of the car and have never given permission for it to be sold in the past or now. I demand the return of car. And in any case, the car should not be sold (perhaps even saying that should they now knowingly sell the car they could be deemed to be something? Trespass of goods or whatever it might be)?
2. That I would like it returned
3. That I would, at this stage, be prepared to cover reasonable costs for the work that has been carried out
4. That I will commence legal action in x days?


All of it is confusing but 4 is where it gets most confusing. I may think as a layman that say trespass of goods is what I go for but that might be the weakest legal path to follow. And surely I can’t cite 5 different things I think they may have breached and wait for a judge or defence lawyer to bat them away one at a time? Honestly I just wish a solicitor would take this on for me, i’m very happy to pay!! My home insurance covers advice but not reviewing documents so not sure how much value it offers.

[islandgirl]

I agree with all you say and I am sure you will get the advice you need just I would be concerned that it may sell over Easter so notify them it must not be sold asap and let the legal stuff follow - just what I would do - no idea if that is the best course of action!

[Squirmy]

This is what I was thinking of sending them (hope it's ok to share it). I'd send recorded delivery / signed for. Too much?

Dear sir/madam,

I am writing to you in connection with the [make/model of car removed] registration [registration number removed] / VIN : [vehicle identification number removed] you are currently advertising for sale to state:

1. I am the legal owner of this car and retain full and good title.
2. No work carried out on the car has been done with my permission or anyone acting on my behalf.
3. I have never consented to this car being sold by any person, business or agent.
4. That you must not sell what you do not own.
5. That the V5 exists in my name.
6. That the law generally protects the original owner and I demand it’s return.
7. That you are aware that the car was sold to you by someone other than the lawful owner.

I wish to avoid legal action and am prepared to attempt to resolve this matter. With this in mind:

1. I would make myself available for any legal action you need to take in support of your claim against any 3^rd party.
2. I would be prepared to pay a reasonable sum for the works carried out on the car by yourself.
   1. Subject to an independent inspection of the car as it currently stands (RAC or AA). This inspection will be at my cost.
   2. That a full and itemised list of works carried out, and parts used, be provided to support the claims of 1 and demonstrate that this work was carried out by yourself.
   3. That any guarantees of workmanship must be upheld.
3. If the work was carried out prior to the car coming into your possession I would pay reasonable sum to a 3^rd party
   1. Once any monies due back to yourself by a 3^rd party had been repaid in full
   2. And that the “reasonable sum” takes into account any guarantees of workmanship or absence therein
4. That the requested “reasonable sum” be provided to myself within calendar 7 days of receipt of this letter.
5. That agreement is reached on “reasonable sum” within 14 calendar days of receipt of this letter.

If we are unable to reach agreement I will commence legal action within 14 calendar days of receipt of this letter and I sincerely hope we are able to resolve this matter amicably in the meantime.

Your sincerely

[islandgirl]

des8 wondered if you can help?

[des8]

Hi there

Whilst writing to the current possessor of the car I would not, at this stage, advertise any willingness to make payments to them.
IMO that is inviting an enhanced invoice.

Certainly lay out your position and preparedness to assist him in recovering against the person(s) from whom he obtained the car.

You will need to prove ownership of the car.
Bearing in mind that the V5 does not prove ownership, have you reported the vehicle stolen to the police?
They will try and fob you off with "it's a civil matter".
You must stand your ground and insist that you are reporting a crime under the Theft Act 1968 (sec1) and obtain a crime number (even if they won't actually investigate.)

Then add to your letter to the current possessor a demand the vehicle be returned to you forthwith.
This is because the original trader committed the tort of conversion by assuming possession of your vehicle and by selling it exercised a right of ownership.
This is the civil aspect of his actions , and this is one of the steps you take to recover your vehicle via the civil courts.

The same action can be both criminal and civil in its effects.


As a matter of interest was the original repair shop a limited company or sole trader organisation?

[Squirmy]

Thank you so much for all of that. I did call the police a couple of weeks ago and got the it’s a civil matter contact the DVLA.

My solicitor (who won’t take on the case due to costs but says I’m the rightful owner) said it wasn’t theft as I had consented to leaving the car at the original garage. But I am happy to press for a crime number.

I will remove all offer to pay, thank you for guidance. I presume we might get offered mediation if I have to issue court papers which I would be happy to undertake rather than having to go to court? And is it at that point I can make some offers? Or let the mediator decide?

[Squirmy]

Sorry to your question they weren’t trading as a limited company name. I just checked companies house and there is no business under that name. I checked the name of one of the owners and couldn’t find any records for directorship either.

There were two guys who ran the place (fairly sure they had people work for them as well) so I’m surprised it wasn’t a limited company surely it can’t be a sole trader?

[des8]

So you need to identify the owners of the business and probably they were a loose partnership, but controlled by the Partnership Act 1890.

I would disagree with your solicitor regarding theft. (the only reason for it not being theft is the seller believing they were not acting dishonestly)
I have heard of similar cases where it has taken a lot of badgering to get a crime number.
You will need to visit the station, not just phone calls, and wave the Act at them.
With a crime number you should be sure that DVLA will not change the owner's registration
Theft is defined in the act as "dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;"

[Squirmy]

Thank-you so much again. I've called the police and had a bit more success than first time, the car is now flagged as stolen, although I do not have a crime number yet a police officer will call me on Sunday to discuss so not over the line yet. If they decide no crime has occurred they will unflag it.

I have the names of the two people who ran the garage.

I've updated the letter below, if you could give it a quick read and let me know if I should change or add anything. Ideally I'd like to get it in the post recorded delivery tomorrow. But if it is worth waiting for a crime number (if I get one) then I can hold off until Tuesday.


Letter Before Action
Dated 2^nd April 2021

Dear [name removed],

Having sought legal advice I am writing to you in connection with the [make and model removed] registration [registration removed] / VIN : [Vehicle Identification Number removed]you are currently advertising for sale and that is in your possession to state:

1. I am the lawful owner of this car and retain full and good title.
2. As such you must not sell what you do not own.
3. No work carried out on the car has been done with my consent or anyone acting on my behalf.
4. I have never consented (either by act or by omission), nor has anyone acting on my behalf, for this car to be sold by any person, business or agent.
5. That the V5 exists in my name and has done since 2012.
6. That the law generally protects the original owner and, as the current possessor
7. That a professional person should not reasonably purchase a car without possession of a V5.
8. That you are now aware, by admission in writing, that the car was sold to you by someone other than the lawful owner. For the avoidance of doubt any act of lien by a garage seeking recourse for unpaid bills requires two things:
   1. That certain processes and procedures be followed to demand payment and set out any action that will be taken should payment not be forthcoming.
   2. That any demand for payment is for authorised work.

Neither of these conditions are satisfied and by assuming ownership tort of conversion has occurred against my good title.

1. I would make myself available for any legal action you need to take in support of your claim against any 3^rd party.
2. I demand the return of the car forthwith.

The above statements are to outline my lawful ownership, without prejudice, and that I do not consent to any sale of the car.

I will commence legal action within 14 calendar days of receipt of this letter should this matter remain unresolved, in the meantime you should seek your own legal guidance.

Your sincerely

[Squirmy]

Sorry typo

6 should read


That the law generally protects the original owner.

[des8]

Point 6 & 7 delete as they add nothing to your claim
delete " and by assuming ownership tort of conversion has occurred against my good title."

Sub points should be numbered eg (i) (ii) etc

Amend
"I will commence legal action within 14 calendar days of receipt of this letter should this matter remain unresolved,
to:
I reserve the right to initiate legal action without further advice to recover my vehicle within 14 calendar days of receipt of this letter should this matter remain unresolved,

No need to advise him to seek legal advice.

[Squirmy]

Thank you again so much for your help. For some reason the text editor on here changes my 6.i and 6.ii to 6.1 and 6.2 and beneath that items 1 and 2 are actually 7 and 8 in my version

Updated body to now read.

1. I am the lawful owner of this car and retain full and good title.
2. As such you must not sell what you do not own.
3. No work carried out on the car has been done with my consent or anyone acting on my behalf.
4. I have never consented (either by act or by omission), nor has anyone acting on my behalf, for this car to be sold by any person, business or agent.
5. That the V5 exists in my name and has done since 2012.
6. That you are now aware, by admission in writing, that the car was sold to you by someone other than the lawful owner. For the avoidance of doubt any act of lien by a garage seeking recourse for unpaid bills requires two things:
   1. That certain processes and procedures be followed to demand payment and set out any action that will be taken should payment not be forthcoming.
   2. That any demand for payment is for authorised work.

Neither of these conditions are satisfied.

1. I would make myself available for any legal action you need to take in support of your claim against any 3^rd party.
2. I demand return of the car forthwith.

The above statements are to outline my lawful ownership, without prejudice, and that I do not consent to any sale of the car.

I reserve the right to initiate legal action within 14 calendar days of receipt of this letter should this matter remain unresolved.

Your sincerely

[Squirmy]

Sorry just updated last line to read "I reserve the right to initiate legal action, without further advice, to recover my vehicle within 14 calendar days of receipt of this letter should this matter remain unresolved."