Rejecting car within 30 days

[suffolklady]

Apologies - think I originally put this in the wrong forum.


Hi - I bought a Jeep Cherokee 2.8 2009 locally in mid June with a 3 month warranty from a trader. I asked for the advisory oil leak on the MOT to be fixed during the full service and MOT I was offered as part of the sale.
On driving it home a week later I felt nauseous and had a headache. I phoned the garage and arranged to take the vehicle back the following week. They said it was a defective fuel filter causing fumes which had been replaced in the service and they would put in a new one. Drove home and still did not feel good driving the car. I had it inspected by a friend who works as a mechanic who found a significant oil leak. We also found that the Air Con was not working and it had a wheel bearing noise. I agreed to take it back again to the garage with a written list of items that I was unhappy about. I had to hire a car for the weekend as they had no courtesy car.
Picked up the car after the weekend - they said the oil leak was due to a loose bolt holding the starter motor and some kind of copper washer and said it had not leaked all weekend, said nothing wrong with the wheel bearing, the aircon was working and very cold - by the time I had driven 20 miles I felt ill, headache and falling asleep at the wheel. After two days the aircon was not working again (I have been told that that the pump is not engaging) and everytime I drove the car I felt unwell.

I took the car to another mechanic who agreed to inspect the car and write a report. He found it still had an oil leak from the rear of the engine - possibly from the bell housing, wheel bearing noise on one wheel and the alternator belt was split - which he would have expected to have been replaced on the initial service. He smelled oil in the car cabin.
I wrote a letter requesting to reject the car within the 30 days. The garage has asked me to take it in to be inspected by them and if they disagree with my issues to get an independent mechanic to look at the car.

My questions are: As I have already given them the chance to repair the car once do I need to take it back to them for inspection and if so should this be at my cost or theirs?
I live quite a way from the garage. If I do take the car back and they agree with my issues do I need to agree to a repair or can I continue with my rejection? - same for if they disagree with me
and it is sent to an independent mechanic and he agrees with me.

The car is parked on my driveway as I cannot safely drive it without getting headaches and have had to insure and tax a small car a friend has lent me.

Does anyone know if gas from an A/C unit can get into the car cabin as it seems as if the A/C unit is losing gas.

Before receiving the reply to my recorded delivery rejection letter I had booked the car in to have diagnostics on the A/C to see if there is a gas leak, if so why and where the gas is going.

Any suggestions/advice?

Consumer Advice have been very helpful but sometimes very hard to get through to them.
I am going to try them again this morning before I reply to the garage.

I don't feel safe driving the car as it makes me feel unwell and I nearly fell asleep at the wheel.

Suffolklady

[ostell]

Did you specifically tell them that you were rejecting the car under The Consumer Rights Act 2015? If not do so and do it in writing. Get your friend go write a report on what he found and include a copy of that.

up to 30 days you have the right to reject without giving them a chance to correct, upto 6 months you have to allow 1 chance to repair. Looks like they have had their chance so you require your money back within 14 days. They can also collect the car at their expense as you consider it dangerous to drive. You also tell them you are claiming for the additional expenses (the other car) that you have incurred

If this is on credit then include the credit company in this.

Hmmm.... suspicious about the starter motor fixing causing an oil leak

[suffolklady]

Hi and thank you for replyin.
Yes I wrote and sent by recorded delivery using the template from Consumer Advice rejecting under the 2015 act etc. I included a report from the mechanic who has a specialist Land Rover / 4 x4 garage saying that he could see oil leak, wheel bearing noise and the split alternator belt. At that point the air con was sort of working but only had luke warm air.
So I don't have to let them have the car back once again to 'inspect'? It would just be stringing out the whole process as well and I live 36 miles from the garage. It is on credit card - I just used it to pay and was going to pay off the card with my savings. Consumer Advice said to start process with credit card now as well. It was on two cards so they said to speak to both of the card suppliers.

When I bought the car the original MOT done in January said there was an advisory small oil leak. So I said that I would buy the car if the oil leak was
found and fixed. When I collected the car the new MOT had no advisory about an oil leak - I realise that is not a fail just an advisory - so I asked what had caused the oil leak and was told it was a washer on the sump. Seems there are lots of 'reasons' for this oil leak...

Consumer advice said the burden of proof is on me to prove that the car has faults so I am wondering whether I should get an accredited engineer like
a Dekra member or AA/RAC to do a vehicle inspection and just cut to the end of the argument? I don't wish the garage to repair the car anymore I just wish to reject and be refunded as I have lost faith in the garage.

[ostell]

No, with CRA, after the 30 days, the supplier has to show that there was NOT a defect at the time of delivery. Not sure about within the 30 days, open to debate? However they have agreed that there were faults by the very fact that they "fixed" them

[suffolklady]

Very good point about them agreeing there were faults by their 'fixing' of them. They may not reply but it has been suggested that I email them and ask what work was carried out on the vehicle when I brought it back for repair, and if the air con was 'fixed' by a re-gas who carried out the work.
I could go straight to an independent inspection by a Dekra member, contact my credit card company and go from there. They are welcome to come and inspect the car at my home, or I can probably arrange for them to view it at a mechanic's premises who has an inspection pit, but don't see how I can take it back to them as I am now not driving the vehicle. I was also only given the top page of the MOT not the diagnostics test sheet. Is that usual?
I have always been given both copies when I had my old car MOT'd by a garage.

[ostell]

They have already had the chance to inspect and found faults. The 30 day clock stops until they fix, the haven't fixed. You have that report by your friend that shows faults. Are you still within the 30 days? In which case you have that absolute right to reject and do not have to give them another chan e to resolve. Just let them know that you will be claiming other, ongoing, costs.

Get the credit card company joined into this action.

have you looked on the DVLA site to get the MOT history? https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

[des8]

As you have rejected the vehicle it is for the dealer to collect it at no cost to yourself, and you have the duty of making the vehicle available for collection (CRA 2015 para 20 (7) & (8))
As you have rejected within the first thirty days it is for you to prove the fault(s), which render the vehicle not to comply with the contract, existed at the time of delivery.
IMO anyway the reports you have are sufficient.

Do raise a Sec 75 claim with both credit cards, but keep both informed of the other's interest!

[suffolklady]

They have already had the chance to inspect and found faults. The 30 day clock stops until they fix, the haven't fixed. You have that report by your friend that shows faults. Are you still within the 30 days? In which case you have that absolute right to reject and do not have to give them another chan e to resolve. Just let them know that you will be claiming other, ongoing, costs.

Get the credit card company joined into this action.

have you looked on the DVLA site to get the MOT history? https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

I looked it up before I bought the car. The previous MOT had an advisory about the oil leak
• Oil leak, but not excessive [8.4.1 (a) (i) plus two advisories about the rear coil springs being corroded.
The new MOT was carried out by the garage I bought it from at their premises and there are no advisories about the oil or the coil springs.
Only the first page of the MOT is on the DVLA site and the garage did not give me the full report which I used to get from having MOT's done on previous cars I have owned. Would MOT testing stations have to keep a record of all the results they get on the MOT?

I am now outside of the 30 days but sent the rejection letter within the 30 days. Calling credit card companies this morning.
Thanks

[suffolklady]

As you have rejected the vehicle it is for the dealer to collect it at no cost to yourself, and you have the duty of making the vehicle available for collection (CRA 2015 para 20 (7) & (8))
As you have rejected within the first thirty days it is for you to prove the fault(s), which render the vehicle not to comply with the contract, existed at the time of delivery.
IMO anyway the reports you have are sufficient.

Do raise a Sec 75 claim with both credit cards, but keep both informed of the other's interest!

Am phoning both card companies this morning. Luckily they have 0% interest for a few months but I was going to pay them off with my savings before that expired. Will keep the charges on the cards for now.

Would they also have to pay for my expenses of insuring and taxing another car until they accept the rejection and refund my money?
It is only a little run around that belonged to my nephew but is money I am paying out.

Thanks for your advice.

[ostell]

You can claim for the extra costs you have incurred

[suffolklady]

Just an update on my rejection of the Jeep. The family friend who recommended the garage to me spoke with the owner about me wanting to return the Jeep for full refund. He said it has cost him £800 in VAT and he only got £75 for scrap for my trade in and had given me £300 for the car. I didn't bargain on the asking price for the Jeep and that is not my problem! But surely he would get the VAT back if I returned the vehicle?
He is offering for me to have another vehicle for same price. But the ones he has for same price are either manual or not what I want.
He said he wants to deal with it personally when he is back from holiday. Will it affect my rejection of the vehicle if I wait to see what he is actually offering?
They emailed me to say I could take it back again so they can inspect the issues I have raised (thought it has already been back for same issues) and I countered by saying they are welcome to view the vehicle at my home address, but I have not heard anything. I am just not sure on the timeline of things.
I spoke to credit card people and they said that as soon as I officially contact them regarding a 'dispute' they then start the action.

[des8]

Firstly it is for them to collect

You can allow them as much time as you want to allow them to come up with a solution, it won't affect your rejection

[suffolklady]

Firstly it is for them to collect

You can allow them as much time as you want to allow them to come up with a solution, it won't affect your rejection

They still want the vehicle taken back to them - not for them to collect. However if they finally take the car back to inspect it how will I know if
they start to try and repair some of the things that are wrong with the vehicle to disprove my claim - though I think they would be quite expensive repairs.
As there are a number of problems with the vehicle I just want to be refunded the purchase price and start again with a new purchase.
If I did get someone to drive the car back to the garage for me could I insist that that person views the inspection they carry out?

[des8]

Remind the dealer of the provisions of CRA 2015, and warn them that failure to comply within 10 days will leave you no option but to initiate court action without further reference to them.
Don't worry about them attempting repairs.

Consumer Rights Act 2015 (section 20 Right to reject)

(7)From the time when the right is exercised—

(a)the trader has a duty to give the consumer a refund, subject to subsection (18), and

(b)the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader or (if there is an agreement for the consumer to return rejected goods) to return them as agreed.

(8)Whether or not the consumer has a duty to return the rejected goods, the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them.


Have you heard from the credit card yet?

[suffolklady]

Hi - sorry for slow reply I have been away. Tesco and Santander Credit cards said I need to allow the trader to view the vehicle to check the faults for himself. Just so I have been seen to let him see what is wrong in case they take over the case on my behalf they need to see that I have allowed him to see what is wrong and either disagree with me or hopefully agree to refund me.

The owner wants to view the vehicle with his main engineer - but has been very difficult to pin down on which days he can do this.
We have finally agreed on next Wednesday so I am having to put someone on my insurance to drive the car for an hour to the garage, and I will follow in my nephews Skoda!
I can't drive in the car for more than 15-20 minutes without getting a headache.
I have found a friend to help - who I will give some money to - and have asked the garage for a specific appointment time - they wanted me to leave the car with them all day to give them time to check it over; surely can't take more than an hour or two do do a check? I can't ask my friend to hang around
all day waiting for them to do a check.

He had indicated to the mutual friend who uses his garage that he might be willing to offer me a replacement vehicle but my understanding is that
I am not obliged to take that option - even though it would solve things more quickly. Also I worry that by taking a replacement I would then
lose the right to reject that vehicle if faults were found? And my purchase on credit card would not really be valid as I didn't buy the replacement car on the credit card just the one which currently has the faults. They are making the whole process very difficult, though I gather from other people's posts that this seems to be normal.