Concerns about a dog we purchased

[OliverJames]

Hi Beagles,

On 28th Jan we purchased a dog from a seller using Pets4Homes website. Speaking to the owner, she was rehoming the dog because she was going back to work full time, and she couldn't care for her. She had all the official papers and reg docs etc.

I went to the sellers house and saw the dog and everything on the surface seemed ok, apart from a slight ear problem.

We have had a niggle in the back of our heads ever since we got her that the seller was a little dodgy so we kept an eye on the website, and surprise surprise the EXACT same advert was re-posted 2 days ago. Same copy, same images, same contact details etc. I contacted the seller using a fake email address posing as a prospective buyer and they have answered all my questions. When i asked the seller to send me a recent picture they responded that the pictures on the advert were only taken 2 weeks ago?!?! Considering we purchased out dog 3 weeks ago.........that surprises me no end!!! And when we inspected this picture more closely, as are now 100% sure this was not the dog that we purchased!

I now have even more serious concerns about the dog's history and even though the KC Reg papers may seem legit, and thinking about it, they are pretty easy to forge if you wanted to!

I don't really know what i want to do other than approach the seller for the truth, but what is my legal position? She wasn't exactly a cheap dog, so maybe some sort of "goodwill" compensation?

Last concern is that these guys are running some sort of puppy farm!!!!! Posing as husband and wife selling their beloved family pets.....which never seem to stop coming!!!

Thoughts and advice requested, please!

OJ

[Kati]

tagging Ghostfriend ... any ideas??

[des8]

Have you checked with KC, and have you changed the registration to your own name?
https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/reg...ster-pedigree/

The KC also have concerns about Puppy farms( https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/our...uppy-farming)/

There is also the possibility of reporting to Local Authority, RSPCA & Trading Standards via Citizens Advice (https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...ing-standards/)




I suppose in spite of your concerns you are in love with your dog, so returning it for a full refund is out of the question!
You may be able to obtain a price reduction, but hopefully you will be able to close them down.

[OliverJames]

Hi Des, thanks for getting back to me...

Have you checked with KC, and have you changed the registration to your own name?
https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/reg...ster-pedigree/

Yes, she is fully transferred over to us. I guess using the word "forged" was incorrect. What i meant I was that passing her of with another dogs reg details could have happened. I guess I'm just so angry that I've been lied to....

The KC also have concerns about Puppy farms( https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/our...uppy-farming)/

I am going to speak to them tomorrow and see what they recommend, but obviously don't want to throw myself under a bus! She is KC registered and really don't want to lose that!

There is also the possibility of reporting to Local Authority, RSPCA & Trading Standards via Citizens Advice (https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...ing-standards/)

I will look into this as well!!

I suppose in spite of your concerns you are in love with your dog, so returning it for a full refund is out of the question!
You may be able to obtain a price reduction, but hopefully you will be able to close them down.

100% no chance whatsoever she is going back to them, and you're spot on, we love her so much!!! She's a really sweet girl and deserves soooooo much better than they gave her.

I guess i want to know my legal position so i can get a price reduction on her! They're clearly doing something dodgy and want to let them know we are on to them.

[Ghostfriend]

KC documents (and pedigree certificates) are easy to forge. Have you contacted police and your local council Trading Standards?

[OliverJames]

KC documents (and pedigree certificates) are easy to forge. Have you contacted police and your local council Trading Standards?

They are, but i think on this occasion, there is an element of legitimacy...what element that is, i don't know, but there is 1000% something dodge going on!

When i transferred her over to me via the MyKC portal, there was information about a litter, including a the dog named on the card that we had purchased. I got them to send me a photo of the KC card for the new dog they are advertising and it is another one from the litter ours apparently came from. So maybe they are just selling 11 month old dogs off from a neglected litter, or something? But either way...selling the dog with the same name (pet name, not KC reg name), same back story, and claiming the images in the profile are of the dog the purchaser is seeing ALL smells fishy!

I have it in writing from the seller (received today) that the photos were "taken 2 weeks ago" which is absolute horse sh**!

None of it stacks up

Ultimately, the reason I was looking for an older dog, KC registered that wasn't neutered, was to breed her with our boy. But now I have major concerns about what sort of health issues she may have, and breeding her would be cruel if the the puppies were born with some generic issues due to poor breeding in the past. You jus't don't know when the seller has acted like this!

[des8]

As you may have sussed from my avatar, I and OH are doggy peeps!
I would only ever recommend buying from known and trusted breeders, and would never purchase from sellers advertising on the web
It means getting to know your breed, going to dog shows and talking to the breeders.
The top breeders (in the less numerous breeds anyway) all know what their opposite numbers are breeding and would soon notice if one was breaching the rules.
That's my theory anyway, and we've stuck to it for 45 years!

Re "your" breeder if it is all above board it seems odd they are using photographs of one dog only.

Regarding breeding from your two, have you checked their bloodlines?
Have you got prospective purchasers lined up for any pups surplus to your requirements?
When we wanted to buy in we would decide on the bloodlines to produce the best dogs possible, and the approach the likely breeders and place a provisional order for next time they were having a litter. Might have to wait a couple of years before we obtained what we wanted.
Then before breeding we would pass the word around about our intentions so we had an idea about demand.

[OliverJames]

As you may have sussed from my avatar, I and OH are doggy peeps!
I would only ever recommend buying from known and trusted breeders, and would never purchase from sellers advertising on the web
It means getting to know your breed, going to dog shows and talking to the breeders.
The top breeders (in the less numerous breeds anyway) all know what their opposite numbers are breeding and would soon notice if one was breaching the rules.
That's my theory anyway, and we've stuck to it for 45 years!

Re "your" breeder if it is all above board it seems odd they are using photographs of one dog only.

Regarding breeding from your two, have you checked their bloodlines?
Have you got prospective purchasers lined up for any pups surplus to your requirements?
When we wanted to buy in we would decide on the bloodlines to produce the best dogs possible, and the approach the likely breeders and place a provisional order for next time they were having a litter. Might have to wait a couple of years before we obtained what we wanted.
Then before breeding we would pass the word around about our intentions so we had an idea about demand.

Morning Des,

Yes, I assumed you were dog folk, which is great!

I have been a dog owner forever, and always used recommended and reputable breeders in the past. Our boy came from a fantastic private litter and he is sensational! I guess you can only do so much research into someone, and when all the stars seem to align. then you need to use your better judgement. Unfortunately, in this instance, the story was so well constructed in in the front end, albeit it has fallen over after the event, that i just felt it was all good!

I have every faith in our boys bloodline. I still have a relationship with the seller who has had another impeccable litter since (i've met them all), but obviously without trust, I can only make assumptions about the girl. This is one of my biggest frustrations! We have lined up family and friends to take our pups, but now we have concerns about whether their health will be an issue! This would have a) offered the pups amazing, loving homes and b) would have covered the costs that we have incurred for her!

This is what I now want to recover from the seller, as we don't feel confident to breed her, which is a real shame

[des8]

So relieved to hear you were acting properly and not on the spur of the moment.

Presumably the new one is microchipped, and you were given the relevant details to change the registration.
If not, get your vet to scan for the chip, and if its not there have them look to see a scar where it might have been cut out.

Selling older dogs on with the excuse of not being able to look after it for a variety of reasons (work, illness, moving) is one way stolen dogs are moved.
Puppy farmers tend to sell their dogs early. Keeping them costs feed and possibly loss through illness

Without being able to prove there was skullduggery you will find it difficult to pursue this successfully through the courts.
You actually saw the dog before purchasing, so weren't relying on the photo.
If the advert actually stated something about the dog that was untrue, and upon which you relied, you would have a case to argue.

[OliverJames]

Without being able to prove there was skullduggery you will find it difficult to pursue this successfully through the courts.
You actually saw the dog before purchasing, so weren't relying on the photo.
If the advert actually stated something about the dog that was untrue, and upon which you relied, you would have a case to argue.

So from my side, i have evidence of them talking to us over 3 weeks ago about the dog, and in that they send the same photos of the dog which they claim now, in writing, were only taken 2 weeks ago. The dog we purchased is VERY similar to the dog in the photo....we can only assume it's their mother at a very similar age?

On much closer inspection, you can make out slight differences, but this wouldn't have come out from a single visit. They even refer to this new dog as Lilly, which was the name they gave our girl during the "sales" process!

I got them to send me a picture of the KC slip, and it is a different bitch, but from the same litter...........apparently?

[des8]

I agree with you that something seems amiss.
Why would a genuine breeder not allow a purchaser to view the litter and chose a puppy?
Why sell successive dogs as if they are single family pets which can no longer be cared for?
It could be (as you suggested earlier) a breeder stuck with a litter is trying to sell them on individually using the sympathy card.
Perhaps you should ask them outright!

But having said that I don't think you have a case to take to court,

[OliverJames]

I agree with you that something seems amiss.
Why would a genuine breeder not allow a purchaser to view the litter and chose a puppy?
Why sell successive dogs as if they are single family pets which can no longer be cared for?
It could be (as you suggested earlier) a breeder stuck with a litter is trying to sell them on individually using the sympathy card.
Perhaps you should ask them outright!

But having said that I don't think you have a case to take to court,

OK, i think we just need to suck it up, and confront them directly. Ask the question and hope to get some sort of sensible answer from them (albeit I don't think they have an ounce of sense between them)

Worst case, they will know that we are on to them, and I will also contact KC and let them know thats going on with them. Hopefully they blacklist both him and her to cut their profit margins down so much it makes the whole thing pointless!

Just feel sooooo bad for the poor dogs they are clearly abusing! It's got to stop!

Thanks for your time and i will let you know if there is any update down the line