nat west loan and court action

[brummie]

Hi to all.

Back in feb of 2007 i took an overdraught out on a buisiness account to which my late wife and i signed a guarantee. My wife was director of the company and i was secretary. Shortly after this my wife became terminally ill and passed away in march 2008. The overdraught was being paid off from my buisiness account, but because of the illness, death etc it became difficult with payments. The buisiness, in the space of 12 months, went from £150,000 a year turn-over to nothing, and i eventually stuck it off.
In the persuing months i made arrangements with the bank and did my best to keep up payments. The account was moved to a centre in Telford which i beleive to be a collection centre. Within a short period of time all contact was lost with me by the bank and no more payments were requested. About 12 months ago i received a letter from the bank's solicitors requesting an offer of payment. An offer was made, and a number of payments, but i challenged the amout that the bank were asking for, as this far exceeded the original amount. Nat West as always dug their heels in and so far have not provided me with a thourough break-down of their interest charges against monies paid in by me. The latest is a claim form from the courts with me as the defendant.....

The form states that i can do one of three things;

fully admit liability,
admit part liability,
or appeal.

The document is date-stamped 5th of september so i am presuming i have 14 days from this date to return it stating my intentions?
Whatever option i choose, if the courts ruling goes against me what are the consequences? I am currently listed as director of my new buisiness which is two years old and holding my head above some very murky construction industry waters....

One further point i would like to mention is that the solicitors, in their statement, have named me as director but failed to mention my late wife. Does this hold any bearing on the case, as ultimately i signed the guarantee?

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: nat west loan and court action

Sorry for the delay in answering this thread hun, I am bumping it for you so the experts can see it in the morning. Will check again in the morning and if there is no answer I will call out on chat for you

p

[TUTTSI]

Re: nat west loan and court action

If you dispute the amount they are asking for then I would answer admit part liability or appeal.

Then i would ask them for a complete statement under CPR rules ( not sure what number it is but perhaps one of our other members will know that answer) so that you can check how the amounts are made up and check it against your records etc.

Also, did they add PPI to this loan? If they did and you were not aware of this fact you may be able to get this refunded and returned to you with interest. I fully suspect that business loans had PPI added as I know that Lloyds added them as a condition of the loan.

As you signed the guarantee thats why they are coming after you. You are entitled to see a full statement of what they are asking for in their claim and they cannot deny this to you if they want to continue in court. Keep everything in writing to the solicitors and request that their client provide you with all the information by return including if PPI was added to the loan and ask to see the original signed agreement as well as often they hid these sort of things within the figures. You may well have your original agreement and if you post it up without your personal details we can look at this for you.

I suspect others will be along shortly to help further.

[brummie]

Re: nat west loan and court action

Hi Tuttsi and thanks for the advice.

I will request further info from the solicitors, but in the meantime should i also send back my form to the courts admitting part liabillity? I have never denied the debt but have constantly questioned the banks un-realistic charges and lack of any form of statement showing their interest calculations. My concern is will the bank and the solicitors supply the information in for me time to submit to the court? The date-stamp of 5th september means i have 14 days to reply to the court, i presume?

[teaboy2]

Re: nat west loan and court action

When requesting documents from a solicitor, you need to make a CPR31.14 request and you need to be specific as to what documents you require. E.g. Credit agreement, break dowm of sums, default notice, termination notice and etc.

Heres a template CPR31.14 request letter for you to use. Simply add additional documents you require to see:

Dear Sir,

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:
CPR 31.14 Request

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2 the assignment*

3 the default notice*

4 the termination notice*

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

yours faithfully

[Celestine]

Re: nat west loan and court action

Excellent advice Tutts and Teaboy x

If PPI was added, it does rather beg the question....why didn't it pay out upon the death of your wife?

Good Luck Brummie x

[Sparkie1723]

Re: nat west loan and court action

The other big question to ask is.............As your account was moved to Telford CMS........ask them for the "Router Account" details that would have been given to your account..........TRUST ME on this ........this Telford Office was infamous in those days for changing account Nos and being managed by an admitted FLAWED accounting system.
This admittance was made by a Senior high management person of the RBS Group at a meeting between that senior person and a memeber of Parliament and a very good friend of mine. ( nI also had the same meeting with my MP and the same Official over these "false created accounts"

Questions about your ROUTER ACCOUNT will make Nat West think very hard ...........they want to get rid of the stigma of it all........questions are still being asked in H o P ( behind the scenes) at this very moment about this flawed system.......which were a contribuitory factor in the problems that RBS/Nat West got them selves in a mess about............briefly this system "CREATED" ..False Assets.....by inflating their book debts.

Its a complicated issue but I can assure you.... both myself and my friend Pwlton created havoc for RBS/Nat West over this..........its possible some members will remember it all.

Remember question them about if, when and how your account was give a "Router Account" Number....they will at first deny it .......if they do tell them you will be contacting your MP about it who will then contact the large number of MP's that are involved in looking into the Router Account issue.
They will not like it one bit
Sparkie

PS.
Are the Court Papers about your overdraft?...... or have they stated that it is a loan?......believe me the answer to this is very important

PPS
The name of the RBS Group big wig was Richard Hemsley

[brummie]

Re: nat west loan and court action

Thankyou sparkie that is just the news i wanted to hear. Telford CMS made a total mess of it all, changed the account twice and eventually reverted to taking payments over the phone by calling me. Telford also lost the details of my mailing address, continued to send correspondance to my previous address at which the agreement was originaly set up, even though we informed the bank of our new address in southampton. I have a full file with transcripts of my official complaint to nat west regarding the way that Telford conducted its buisiness, and on the back of your comments look forward to bringing it to the table. ( eventually...) I am still of firm beleif that a number of payments made by myself to Telford CMS have not been applied to the figures the solicitors are qouting, only compounding your comments regarding their structure at that time.

Now the question is.....
I feel very strongly about the way nat west has treated me over the last few years and would like to stop anybody else having to suffer the same drivvel. As i have mentioned in the post above, and to the bank and solicitor on numerous occasions I HAVE NEVER DENIED MY LIABILITY! My worries are that i may let myself down with the timing of my letters, so would you please bear with me if i keep repeating my questions. The following few days are going to be crucial so i need to be on the ball. Can somebody give me a list of bullet-points that i should address one by one. Do i send in my appeal to the court first, or write to the solicitor with the above form, or both?

[Bill-K]

Re: nat west loan and court action

As Cel & TUTTSI have hinted - if you get some half-decent (and non-fabricated) sets of accounts in response to the CPR request, it may be worth checking through them for items which might be PPI - or other possibly mis-sold insurance. If mis-sold, then this may substantially reduce the amount owing - as it may also bring penalty charges into question.

[brummie]

Re: nat west loan and court action

ok thanks to all you guys for your help. I am back home tommorow and will spend saturday digging through all the paperwork i have. Point to mention;
When i requested a SARS last year they provided a full statement of account on the buisiness including DD'S that reflect against the debt. There was nothing provided detailing monies handed over to Telford cms. I have had to trust the bank with their figures. I'm sure the CPR will reveal these missing numbers.....

[brummie]

Re: nat west loan and court action

Hi everybody.

I thought i would introduce myself to Mr. Hester, C.E.O. of Nat West.

I was not the brightest in English calsses,( sorry, classes!) so my appologies if my grammar is a little fragmented!:tinysmile_cry_t:
The attachment is a draught, and would appreciate any input you may have.

[TUTTSI]

Re: nat west loan and court action

So if you had PPi cover did this cover you and your wife? and if this did was there any payment due to her behalf on this policy for her illness and her subsequent death.

Or was you you mis-sold the PPI policy?

I suspect the letter to the CEO could be tidied up a bit but you have generally got everything down that you need to say. Just dont forget to put your name, business name + account numbers etc on the document before you send it and email is the fastest way.

I look forward to you receiving a satisfactory outcome from this.

Hi everybody.

I thought i would introduce myself to Mr. Hester, C.E.O. of Nat West.

I was not the brightest in English calsses,( sorry, classes!) so my appologies if my grammar is a little fragmented!:tinysmile_cry_t:
The attachment is a draught, and would appreciate any input you may have.

[brummie]

Re: nat west loan and court action

Hi Tuttsi

The issue of the CPR will show if there was indeed a ppi in place, hopefully.The other PPI'S relate to loans and mortgage services with our personnal accounts. About 9 in total. As i mentioned, English was not on my favorites list!!

[brummie]

Re: nat west loan and court action

OK had a busy day....
wrote to mr Hester about his bank, and filled in the CPR request and sent it off registered to the solicitors. I also emailed it to the solicitors at 2 different addresses, but both emails have been refused and sent back. Nice.
Next step is to collate my defence. On the application from the courts i am going to admit part-liability to the debt. In that section it is requesting an amount of money that i am saying i will re-pay. Unfortunatley i do not have an amount because i have no figures describing the charges the bank has applied, or monies paid over to CMS...hence the CPR. Should i list this and send it back to the court without an admitted amout to re-pay?

anybody have any thoughts about counter-claiming for un-fair treatment, lack of disclosure and damages to servicing accounts via miss-sold PPI's?...
getting a bit techy now as to which direction to take....

[brummie]

Re: nat west loan and court action

[QUOTE=Sparkie1723;282082]The other big question to ask is.............As your account was moved to Telford CMS........ask them for the "Router Account" details that would have been given to your account..........TRUST ME on this ........this Telford Office was infamous in those days for changing account Nos and being managed by an admitted FLAWED accounting system.
This admittance was made by a Senior high management person of the RBS Group at a meeting between that senior person and a memeber of Parliament and a very good friend of mine. ( nI also had the same meeting with my MP and the same Official over these "false created accounts"

Questions about your ROUTER ACCOUNT will make Nat West think very hard ...........they want to get rid of the stigma of it all........questions are still being asked in H o P ( behind the scenes) at this very moment about this flawed system.......which were a contribuitory factor in the problems that RBS/Nat West got them selves in a mess about............briefly this system "CREATED" ..False Assets.....by inflating their book debts.

Its a complicated issue but I can assure you.... both myself and my friend Pwlton created havoc for RBS/Nat West over this..........its possible some members will remember it all.

Remember question them about if, when and how your account was give a "Router Account" Number....they will at first deny it .......if they do tell them you will be contacting your MP about it who will then contact the large number of MP's that are involved in looking into the Router Account issue.
They will not like it one bit
Sparkie

PS.
Are the Court Papers about your overdraft?...... or have they stated that it is a loan?......believe me the answer to this is very important
[QUOTE] there is no mention of either in the papers....originally it was an overdraught.
PPS
The name of the RBS Group big wig was Richard Hemsle