advice needed for benefits

[debs1974]

I need advice, my son is 19 this month. He has learning and behavior disabilities. He starts full special ed college in march. We was turned down for child benefit even though their website states * started, enrolled or accepted onto a full time course before their 19th birthday* ( they told me on the phone it was a no because he is not on a full time course now ). I cannot appeal now because i have been waiting over 1 month for their statement of reasons. His jsa will stop when he starts college, and cannot claim ESA ( though he is entitled ) because all 6 of our family drs said he was not ill and will not give medical cert. We have made a claim for dla, they have written to drs for a report. Just need to know what my son is entitled to, its getting so hard now that i have chest pains

Re: advice needed for benefits

I think your experience is sadly the norm. What I am saying is that with the right Headteacher in place, who will fight beyond the cause of duty for the child, things can be done. If you think of it, it is logical that these people exist or there would be no Special Schools.

Many children with LD/SLD are let down by the system, or the lack of perseverence of key people, or simply a failure by a school to address things correctly with a child.

The OP's child may not have seen a psychiatrist, but if they have, the records will be held as medical records, not in the school. As you say, it is almost irrelevant to this as the child is not a child any longer. He will therefore be assessed as an adult. Once you get into the realsm of accessing support for an adult of this nature, where 6 GP's have refused such support, with the exception of going privately, I would not have a clue where to start.

[MissFM]

Re: advice needed for benefits

No, I meant psychiatrist. The pschologist, as you say, normally (but not always), studies a degree in psychology then goes on to do a doctorate to become an Ed Psych as they're normally referred to in schools. There exist now quite a few other routes as well into it.

The only route into Education Psychiatry, or Child Psychiatry is through studying the normal two medical degrees a doctor has to do, before serving their time in hospitals and then specialising.

Headteachers can make referrals to the psychiatrists for children to be assessed. The Ed Psych(ologist) is the 'common' visitor to the school. The amount of Ed Psych time allocated to any particular school depends on a huge raft of difference indicators, and there is no national agreement on how an Ed Psych's time is allocated - a great source of frustration for parents and schools alike.

However, in exceptional cases, usually through liaison with the GP, the HT can request assessment by a Psychiatrist who, as you rightly state, can make a formal diagnosis of a condition. I have known this happen in quite a few cases, and a whole separate ream and stream of paperwork is then created. It is essential this route exists as without it, as in your son's case, Autism, which in itself covers a huge spectrum, would never be diagnosed in young children. There have been quite a few cases I have experienced where, without the intervention of the psychiatrist, the school would probably have failed to meet that child's needs. As you say, whole new funding streams suddenly become available which open up some of the many superb resources which exist for such children.

I remain surprised that in this case there has not been some form of psychiatric assessment - please don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting it, just expressing surprise as someone who has had a little bit of experience in this area.

Dear Labman

Am reeling at your post - genuinely have never heard of an "Educational Psychiatrist" before (although "Child Psychiatrist" does of course ring a bell, though not as anyone remotely available at any school my children have attended) - and such a beast has certainly never been overtly accessible in our area, or made available to our son in his hour of need. If such existed it has never been revealed to us as an option. Or to the dozens of other parents, in similar boats, with whom we have discussed the dreadful lack of such provision for children like ours (ie with SLD). Wish I knew this 15 years ago....need to take time to process - I am a bit slow in this regard but will get there....please understand that learning this has found me very emotional. ".......the school would probably have failed to meet that child's needs." - you have no idea the how bitterly ironic that statement sounds to the likes of me.

This thread is, however, about Debs' son and how to secure the benefits to which he is entitled.

It does sound as if Debs' son has not had the service you describe above either - but even if he has, he is now technically an adult and is still denied access (my understanding from the posts above) to Psychiatric assessment because his doctors say he has no mental illness. But there again, for example, Autism is not a mental illness, just a condition the diagnosis of which will only be officially recognised if pronounced by a Psychiatrist. No doubt there are other conditions with behavioural/communication implications for which an official diagnosis on the same terms would help - most particularly would help with DLA and practical support.

From what Debs has said above the communication difficulties her son has deserve to be professionally assessed. The other conditions already diagnosed - particularly the behavioural and incontinence issues - IMO need to be highlighted and (unfortunately) dwelt upon on his DLA claim form.

I personally don't think ATOS will be relevant at the moment (if at all) because that is to do with fitness to work and Debs' son is going to college in March if I understand correctly.

I hope you are right that paper work from pre-adult days will help with benefits now - again that is something that conflicts directly with our experience as a family but am sure it will be helpful if you could post up how to use this evidence to best effect.

:ranger: x








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Re: advice needed for benefits

I think you mean Educational Psychologist

No, I meant psychiatrist. The pschologist, as you say, normally (but not always), studies a degree in psychology then goes on to do a doctorate to become an Ed Psych as they're normally referred to in schools. There exist now quite a few other routes as well into it.

The only route into Education Psychiatry, or Child Psychiatry is through studying the normal two medical degrees a doctor has to do, before serving their time in hospitals and then specialising.

Headteachers can make referrals to the psychiatrists for children to be assessed. The Ed Psych(ologist) is the 'common' visitor to the school. The amount of Ed Psych time allocated to any particular school depends on a huge raft of difference indicators, and there is no national agreement on how an Ed Psych's time is allocated - a great source of frustration for parents and schools alike.

However, in exceptional cases, usually through liaison with the GP, the HT can request assessment by a Psychiatrist who, as you rightly state, can make a formal diagnosis of a condition. I have known this happen in quite a few cases, and a whole separate ream and stream of paperwork is then created. It is essential this route exists as without it, as in your son's case, Autism, which in itself covers a huge spectrum, would never be diagnosed in young children. There have been quite a few cases I have experienced where, without the intervention of the psychiatrist, the school would probably have failed to meet that child's needs. As you say, whole new funding streams suddenly become available which open up some of the many superb resources which exist for such children.

I remain surprised that in this case there has not been some form of psychiatric assessment - please don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting it, just expressing surprise as someone who has had a little bit of experience in this area.

[MissFM]

Re: advice needed for benefits

http://www.mencap.org.uk/sites/defau...20benefits.pdf

Contrary to appearances Mencap is actually a good charity, and this is a start. But the best thing is to make telephone contact with an actual human being and explain your situation including how urgent it is.

[MissFM]

Re: advice needed for benefits

I can't agree with that. Any Headteacher can request an assessment by an Educational Pyschiatrist at any time for any pupil. The supply outstrips supply, that is true, but I'd be very surprised if, in a case like this, there hadn't been involvement given this goes back to the age of 8, and probably was very symptomatic before that age, quite possibly pre-school.

Absolute respect Labman - as always! - but I think you mean Educational Psychologist - and you are of course right that there should exist reams of paperwork related to Statements of Special Educational Needs with contributions from Ed. Psychologist which should be freely available to parents.


However, referral to a Consultant Psychiatrist with expertise in Learning Disabilities is the only way to get a diagnosis of any underlying condition (in our son's case it was Autistic Spectrum Disorder). Psychiatrists are firstly qualified doctors hence able (legally allowed) to diagnose and treat mental illnesses whereas psychologists are rarely also qualified medical doctors and their expertise lies in other areas. In the case of LD where there are mental health issues, they tend to work as part of a team headed by a Psychiatrist who specialises in learning disabilities.

An Ed Psych, for instance, would work with the school and parents to identify environmental and behavioural issues that would help the individual to learn and would give an opinion on the level of support needed. They would also take into account any diagnosis of which they were made aware.

One of the problems with LD services is that they do vary greatly from county to county - in our area they have discrete teams including dedicated psychiatric services. For example CAMHS will not deal with young people with learning disabilities and are almost exclusively taken up with substance abuse and eating disorders. The adult psychiatric LD service is overstretched so it is very difficult to get a referral. However, once referred an (eventual) accurate diagnosis is more likely: GPs are, in my experience, unwilling to diagnose mental/psychological illnesses/conditions in people with LD. Behavioural issues are routinely seen as part of the learning disability. A diagnosis from an appropriate Consultant Psychiatrist did, in our case and in many others I know of, open doors to support,benefits and funding that were previously brick walls.

Debs would appear to believe that her son needs help and support on this level - and yet it is being denied by "6 family doctors". My view is that parents (mothers in particular) do know their children best and what's more they are the only ones who actually love that person and will always put them first.

Am also researching stuff (some of it previously airbrushed from consciousness as so painful at the time) for Debs - will post as soon as, checked for accuracy and helpfulness!

[MissFM]

Re: advice needed for benefits

Hi Debs and Miss FM, it is not a good idea to PM people with help as if the wrong help is provided it can have serious consequences for those concerned. I think an open discussion as this thread has now developed is the bestest way forward. If Debs needs this thread moved to a more private area to discuss more freely there then she should contact Sapphire either tomorrow or Monday (Sunday or Monday) and request this.

I understand that it is a delicate matter and must be handled with care.

Tuttsi x

Thanks Tuttsi and point taken. I am sorry - heart ruling head and heart is bleeding for what I know Debs must be going through - and sometimes it does help to talk to someone who has been through the same thing.

Don't worry - no PM's have happened!

There are issues that you do only find out - the way things actually work rather than how they should work - through the experience of fighting for your child's wellbeing and I am grateful to the other parents who have shared their experience with me through very dark and difficult times. I also do wish that someone had given me a roadmap with some proven shortcuts and deadends clearly marked.

Re: advice needed for benefits

Hi Debs and Miss FM, it is not a good idea to PM people with help as if the wrong help is provided it can have serious consequences for those concerned. I think an open discussion as this thread has now developed is the bestest way forward. If Debs needs this thread moved to a more private area to discuss more freely there then she should contact Sapphire either tomorrow or Monday (Sunday or Monday) and request this.

I understand that it is a delicate matter and must be handled with care.

Tuttsi x

Debs

I am so sorry for what you are going through - I also have a son with severe learning disabilities/behavioural problems. I'm afraid it is a fight all the way but you can win so that he has what he needs. If it's any help, my son now does after years of fighting and some despair.

Your son is most probably entitled to DLA but you do need to fill in the forms (which are harrowing) in a way that ticks the official boxes. It's terribly distressing because you normally spend all your time trying to look for positives but for these forms you have to look at worst case scenarios and it gets very upsetting.

I don't mean to pry but what learning disabilities does he have and are they officially diagnosed?

Are his behavioural issues diagnosed?

Do you have any support network?

I will help you all I can - from bitter but ultimately successful experience - and if I can't help you I will try to point you to a network that can.

If you would like to PM me please do.

FM

Re: advice needed for benefits

Don't think psychologists are allowed to diagnose - hence the magic key awarded by the psychiatrist (and psychiatrists willing to deal with young people with learning disabilities are like hen's teeth, trust me)

I can't agree with that. Any Headteacher can request an assessment by an Educational Pyschiatrist at any time for any pupil. The supply outstrips supply, that is true, but I'd be very surprised if, in a case like this, there hadn't been involvement given this goes back to the age of 8, and probably was very symptomatic before that age, quite possibly pre-school.

[MissFM]

Re: advice needed for benefits

I have found that requesting a copy of the medical report DWP has done on you by an ATOS doctor for DLA makes them change their mind very quickly for some reason.

Am hoping we can circumvent ATOS - they are particularly ..... (can't go on too tired) for ablebodied people with SLD...

[MissFM]

Re: advice needed for benefits

nope, doctors will not do it saying he has no mental health issues, but i thought behaviour was mental health

Quite!

[MissFM]

Re: advice needed for benefits

No, not necessarily. It would be very interesting to read the Educational Psychologists' reports from over the years. There must have been a few. They are likely to have come up with a 'diagnosis' which may or may not be correct.

Don't think psychologists are allowed to diagnose - hence the magic key awarded by the psychiatrist (and psychiatrists willing to deal with young people with learning disabilities are like hen's teeth, trust me)

[MissFM]

Re: advice needed for benefits

Debs - I know what you have asked for is help with benefits.

Briefly -I am certain that your son is entitled to DLA but getting it will require skill (hence the questions!). I can help you with this. Am a bit hazy on other benefits but as far as I know: he won't (you won't) be entitled to child benefit at the age of 19. ESA is likely - but probably not with JSA (ie if he is in the job market as an able person then he doesn't need support as a disabled person). And you are also entitled to carers allowance if you look after him (that is taxable and if you earn more than a certain amount you don't get it anyway- DLA is not taxable - not sure about ESA). The reason for the intrusive questions is simply to try to find avenues to make this simpler and possible ways to help further. Am off to bed shortly (gotta be up early):nod:

[bluebottle]

Re: advice needed for benefits

I have found that requesting a copy of the medical report DWP has done on you by an ATOS doctor for DLA makes them change their mind very quickly for some reason.

Re: advice needed for benefits

nope, doctors will not do it saying he has no mental health issues, but i thought behaviour was mental health

No, not necessarily. It would be very interesting to read the Educational Psychologists' reports from over the years. There must have been a few. They are likely to have come up with a 'diagnosis' which may or may not be correct.