Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

[Jackien]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

In the sar ... did U get transaction history, list of payments etc on the loan account? things seem to have gone awry since the payment break in 2009 so could you give more detail on the arrangements for that break and how you recommended payments etc.

The bank replied saying they did not have the information that I requested. I thought the SARS covered what they had on me, the bank sent the cheque back! And told me they couldn't help me. I didn't push it at the time. I will now make a fresh request and see what it brings. Yes gone awry since 2009!! I often wonder if I hadn't called to resurrect payments after holiday when they would have been in touch. Would not have been a good situation though!

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

This was agreed amicably, interestingly this meeting was never covered in a letter but this was not an issue, when the term expired I called the bank to resume payments, it was strange as they suggested I pay an amount that was not equal to even the amount I was paying prior to the payment holiday, I was never toe how the payment holiday would be made up.. I didnt mention why they want the loan repaid, it was because they said the business had ceased trading and they noticed lack if activity on the account... This was in 2013 but the business closed in 2007. I have proof that they know this. They are concerned for their money, i know from the little detail that i remember, the interest rate was not much above base rate, so not making much out of me, they have a charge on the property and are trying to find a way to get their money now, is what I think.

Sadly I would have to agree with you.

So after your payment holiday they reduced your payments?

Do you have the letters from them that you had recently regarding increasing payments due to loan not being covered by the term?

Possibly relevant I don't know but what was the loan for?

[Jackien]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

Just had another thought which may be worth a try if you don't yet have a solicitor representing you.

Write back to Natwest and ask them again for a copy of the original agreement and also ask them to provide a complete breakdown of the amount you owe in accordance of the terms and conditions of the original loan agreement.

It would be interesting to see what their response would be, if they can't provide what you have asked for when you ask for it then I'm pretty sure they can't produce it for the court when the court ask for it.

Just to add, make sure you send it by recorded delivery and keep evidence of the date it was sent and received by them.

Good advice thank you I will do this.

[Jackien]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

On another note, a nine month payment break is quite long... what were the terms for doing that, presumably it was agreed between yourself and the bank, were future payments to be increased to cover the gap / additional interest ... or term of loan lengthened?

This was agreed amicably, interestingly this meeting was never covered in a letter but this was not an issue, when the term expired I called the bank to resume payments, it was strange as they suggested I pay an amount that was not equal to even the amount I was paying prior to the payment holiday, I was never toe how the payment holiday would be made up.. I didnt mention why they want the loan repaid, it was because they said the business had ceased trading and they noticed lack if activity on the account... This was in 2013 but the business closed in 2007. I have proof that they know this. They are concerned for their money, i know from the little detail that i remember, the interest rate was not much above base rate, so not making much out of me, they have a charge on the property and are trying to find a way to get their money now, is what I think.

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

In the sar ... did U get transaction history, list of payments etc on the loan account? things seem to have gone awry since the payment break in 2009 so could you give more detail on the arrangements for that break and how you recommended payments etc.

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

If payments are not causing you hardship at the moment then keep up the payments whilst you get to the bottom of this.

I have just added to my previous post with the CAB report 'set up to fail' which might worry you but needs taking into account with how you tackle this and as streetwise says, get some formal advice from a decent solicitor.

If you did stop paying (not recommended at all) then do not be duped by some dodgy CMC solicitor into giving them your payments while they ''investigate'' your loan.... sorry sounds far too much like a cartel client review type thing there. Just be careful.

[Streetwise]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

This is where it all started, when I made the SARS application it became apparent that my file was lost. Have it in writing that there is n agreement available, the bank have told me the don't have it. I will now ask them how much I owe them, and how they have arrived at that figure, what the interests rates are and for details off any added charges. Will see what that brings. Should I continue to make payments or put what I would pay them into an account with a solicitor or something. By not paying would bring to a head or let it run a while whilst I get the info.

Keep paying what you think you should be paying them and get yourself a Litigation solicitor pronto.

[Streetwise]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

This does not mean that one was not made, a court will not rule that an agreement is unenforceable simply because a document is not produced, even a regulated one.

Yes SAR is the way to go, then see what exactly t is the bank has done wrong.

And if they dont have it in the S.A.R..

[Jackien]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

This is where it all started, when I made the SARS application it became apparent that my file was lost. Have it in writing that there is n agreement available, the bank have told me the don't have it. I will now ask them how much I owe them, and how they have arrived at that figure, what the interests rates are and for details off any added charges. Will see what that brings. Should I continue to make payments or put what I would pay them into an account with a solicitor or something. By not paying would bring to a head or let it run a while whilst I get the info.

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

But there is not an agreement ,the OP states he does not have the agreement and neither does the bank.

This does not mean that one was not made, a court will not rule that an agreement is unenforceable simply because a document is not produced, even a regulated one.

Yes SAR is the way to go, then see what exactly t is the bank has done wrong.

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

On another note, a nine month payment break is quite long... what were the terms for doing that, presumably it was agreed between yourself and the bank, were future payments to be increased to cover the gap / additional interest ... or term of loan lengthened?




Possibly read this CAB report and take advice formally especially if they are pushing to recall the loan.
(sorry about formatting)

CAB clients' experience of mortgage and secured loan arrears problems

Set up to fail - summary [ 82 KB]
Set up to fail - summary (Welsh) [ 81 KB]
Set up to fail - full report [ 390 KB]
Citizens Advice Bureaux have seen increasing numbers of mortgage and secured loan arrears problems in the last two years. Homeowners in arrears receive little help from benefits, insurance or their lenders. Poor lending and arrears collection practices made problems much worse for many borrowers. Government policy and mortgage markets have paid too little attention to what happens when things go wrong. Consequently, too many borrowers are being set up to fail.
This report calls on government and regulators to take co-ordinated action to ensure th CAB clients' experience of mortgage and secured loan arrears problems

Set up to fail - summary [Adobe Acrobat Document 82 KB]

Set up to fail - summary (Welsh) [Adobe Acrobat Document 81 KB]

Set up to fail - full report [Adobe Acrobat Document 390 KB]

Citizens Advice Bureaux have seen increasing numbers of mortgage and secured loan arrears problems in the last two years. Homeowners in arrears receive little help from benefits, insurance or their lenders. Poor lending and arrears collection practices made problems much worse for many borrowers. Government policy and mortgage markets have paid too little attention to what happens when things go wrong. Consequently, too many borrowers are being set up to fail.

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

As a sole trader you should be able to submit a subject access request under the data protection act, for all information held about you, this should show up all documents, screen notes, transaction lists, agreements etc.

[Streetwise]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

IM

The OP needs to decide which aspect of the loan they feel as been mishandled and in the first instance approach the bank.

If the bank fail to rectify adequately explain the problem he should approach the regulator , the if all else fails consider going to law.

Making a fishing expedition on the grounds that there may or mat not be something wrong with the agreement is not the way to go.

But there is not an agreement ,the OP states he does not have the agreement and neither does the bank.

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

If the bank can show the interest rates has been charging since inception but how can they prove the interest changes have been made in accordance with the terms of the original contract?

The amount claimed may also contain extra fees and charges that have been added under the terms of the original contract as well so how do they prove that amount is true also?

The amount claimed will always be in dispute.

The OP should also request a breakdown of all fees and charges added to the loan so they can dispute this as well.

It may turn out that Natwest will have to reach a compromise figure with the OP that is agreeable to both sides outside of the court room or this could drag on for years.

The OP needs to get a damn good solicitor to investigate the enforceability of the loan.

IM

The OP needs to decide which aspect of the loan they feel as been mishandled and in the first instance approach the bank.

If the bank fail to rectify adequately explain the problem he should approach the regulator , the if all else fails consider going to law.

Making a fishing expedition on the grounds that there may or mat not be something wrong with the agreement is not the way to go.

[IanM]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

Correct , so what exactly is the OP disputing, the bank will be able to show the interest rates that it has been charging since inception, have these changed ?

The bank should however be sending annual statements this is a requirement, have you complained about this.

A court will make a decision based on the probability of events.

If the bank can show the interest rates has been charging since inception but how can they prove the interest changes have been made in accordance with the terms of the original contract?

The amount claimed may also contain extra fees and charges that have been added under the terms of the original contract as well so how do they prove that amount is true also?

The amount claimed will always be in dispute.

The OP should also request a breakdown of all fees and charges added to the loan so they can dispute this as well.

It may turn out that Natwest will have to reach a compromise figure with the OP that is agreeable to both sides outside of the court room or this could drag on for years.

The OP needs to get a damn good solicitor to investigate the enforceability of the loan.