Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 years?

[Louby-Lou]

Hi all - and thanks in advance for reading this.
I left a Housing Association property approximately 10/11 years ago as I bought a property 120 miles away to live in with my family.

At the time my younger sister was still in residence at my former address, along with 2 lodgers. The lodgers were helping her to pay the rent while she was at university.
My sister left the property about 6 months later and the lodgers remained and paid the rent themselves, direct to the Housing Association.

I have never returned to the property since leaving it 10 years ago.
Approximately 5 years ago, I received a phone call from one of the lodger's who asked me if I would consider signing the tenancy over to him. I told him that he would have to contact the Housing Association about this as only they could give permission for this.
At some point thereafter, I received a telephone call from the housing association asking me if I still resided in their property. I told them that I wasn't, and as I was completing my NQT induction year as a teacher, I could not consider moving back until completion. I cannot remember anything else of the conversation, but I think they mentioned repossession as I was no longer living there.
I heard nothing further until about 2 months ago when a woman arrived at my door from the housing association.
In brief, it appears that the lodgers remained in the property until it was repossessed in or around November 2011. For whatever reason they stopped paying the rent many months beforehand.

I have now been billed with both the Council Tax for 2011 and the rent arrears. I wrote to the relevant Council and asked them why I have been billed for a property that I have not lived in for over 10 years. They declined to comment, and instead wrote to me saying that 'we can confirm you owe...'

I have been waiting for some weeks now to receive a court summons so that I can clarify this point with the magistrate in person as I cannot afford legal advice. However, I have not been invited by the court to discuss this: rather, they have sent a bailiff around today. (I was not home.)

I received a summons in respect of the rent arrears but as the case was being held in Northamptionshire, I could not afford to travel there. I wanted to submit an income/expenses form to the court, together with a letter, but there was not the option to do this.(By completing such a form, I was apparently admitting liability, and nor would the court accept a letter.)

My contention with the housing association is this: they knew full well that I was not resident there for at least the last 5 years, but as they were receiving rent they chose not to repossess the property. Surely, they were in breach of their own tenancy rules?
Even if they claim not to have been aware of me not being there, can they seriously claim that they had not visited the property in over 10 years?

I have thought of offering to pay each 'debt' a nominal amount of £1.00 a week until I can find a way to challenge this.
Can someone possibly advise me of the best course of action to take?

As for the Council Tax, can I seriously be billed for a borough that I have not even visited in many years?! It kind of makes a mockery of what council tax is used for - provision of services to local residents.
I have lived at my current address for 1.6 years and my previous address for a year. Prior to that I was in another part of the country altogether and getting relevant proof could be time consuming. Would proof of address (tenancy agreement/council tax) for the last 2.5 years be sufficient to stop this in its tracks?
I do not own a car but my partner does. Having read some of the things bailiffs can do, could they take his car away for this debt? He is not named on the Bailiff's letter.

[enquirer]

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

when a Ha does repairs on a property they dont ask for ID of the person there same with a visit from a HA person

Often, only the tenants signature is acceptable. As regards a visit from a HA representative, then for the purposes of Data Protection, they would need to confirm who they were talking to.

[wales01man]

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

Housing associations have long waiting lists of people needing housing there are various rule on transfering tenancies the tenant cant just pass it on,If the tenant is absent from the property for a lengh of time they must inform the HA .It looks like the OP has broken the rules whether they are liable for any costs remain to be seen,as i have stated they need to get all the info thats available and if its possiblr SAR the HA this could go either way
As regards the electoral role i do it so my creditors who send threatograms to my address dont have the role as proof i live there my choice i could always be a lord?????

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

I dunno Cloggy.......I only know what my Housing Association rules are..and that is..the tenant named on the Agreement must reside in the house or relinquish the property formally in writing to the HA. I didn't think a tenant could decide who stayed in the property after they left?

No, of course they can't.

They might try to make a tenancy for a named person a condition for leaving, but I doubt even that would be binding on anyone.

Nor do I believe the licence for the property would have been accepted by the HA if they had been informed about it, as they might have wished to increase the rent for a new tenancy.

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

I dunno Cloggy.......I only know what my Housing Association rules are..and that is..the tenant named on the Agreement must reside in the house or relinquish the property formally in writing to the HA. I didn't think a tenant could decide who stayed in the property after they left?

Social Housing is becoming more and more difficult to get so I would imagine any HA has a list of people waiting to move in to properties.
As regards FMOL,,you're right.....I gave them kudos they don't have.

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

Nor even license someone to take up residence?


They'd be daft not to, as they'd have continuity of income and no need for the property to remain vacant whilst they advertised for a new tenant.


Are you sure the FMOL clap-trap is even capable of that?


Rather than considering this to be a sub let, which implies that monies were paid by the resident to the tenant and the tenant paid the landlord, might the arrangement have been one where the tenant granted a licence to the resident to live in the property for as long as the resident paid the rent directly to the landlord or their appointed agents?

I dunno Cloggy.......I only know what my Housing Association rules are..and that is..the tenant named on the Agreement must reside in the house or relinquish the property formally in writing to the HA. I didn't think a tenant could decide who stayed in the property after they left?

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

Im not on register of electors im still resident here

Unless you are proscribed from voting because you are a lord, a lunatic or both, you must provide accurate data when asked.

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

I live in an HA property and if I leave I have to inform them in writing and get acknowledgement from them of the date my tenancy ends. I cannot 'sub let' my property

Nor even license someone to take up residence?

nor allow my son to stay here without formal agreement (they would draw up a totally new tenancy agreement and they also don't have to allow it to happen).

They'd be daft not to, as they'd have continuity of income and no need for the property to remain vacant whilst they advertised for a new tenant.

And seriously reconsider the FMOL course of action,,it only buys time,,and delays the inevitable.

Are you sure the FMOL clap-trap is even capable of that?

As I said,,you really need good legal advice as soon as possible,,and you need proof the HA allowed you to 'pass the tenancy' over.

Rather than considering this to be a sub let, which implies that monies were paid by the resident to the tenant and the tenant paid the landlord, might the arrangement have been one where the tenant granted a licence to the resident to live in the property for as long as the resident paid the rent directly to the landlord or their appointed agents?

[bizzybob]

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

I would agree this is a difficult one the OP may have done something illegal doubtful but they need to get to the bottom of the problem if the council tax bill is for a year where she can prove she was not there and had no connection with the property it will be fine if the bills has been paid by someone else since they left its hard to see why they should be liable ,is it the case that all the bills since they left have been paid and they were still in there name.

Quite possibly fpr at least some of the time.

[wales01man]

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

I would agree this is a difficult one the OP may have done something illegal doubtful but they need to get to the bottom of the problem if the council tax bill is for a year where she can prove she was not there and had no connection with the property it will be fine if the bills has been paid by someone else since they left its hard to see why they should be liable ,is it the case that all the bills since they left have been paid and they were still in there name.

[bizzybob]

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

Im not on register of electors im still resident here

Wwell yes many people aren't since the Poll Tax days, but it would be the first piece of evidence the council would need to ground a liability. This one is going to be a difficult one to solve, as there will be increasing demands for evidence that may be impossible to provide,

[wales01man]

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

Im not on register of electors im still resident here

[bizzybob]

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

even if Op didn't formally relinquish the tenancy when they left, they still may not be liable as they should not show on the Register of electors, therefore are non resident.

[wales01man]

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

when a Ha does repairs on a property they dont ask for ID of the person there same with a visit from a HA person
Best to find out what has happened before more bills come out the OP may be liable unless they can prove different

[enquirer]

Re: Liable for council tax and in a property I haven't stepped foot in for over 10 ye

As of 4 or 5 years ago, yes [...] As I said in my op, I had a phone conversation with the HA about 5 years ago and they knew I wasn't there.

Can you prove this? You didn't follow up with a letter, and they never confirmed the conversation in writing? It is possible that someone might have made a note of the conversation. If so, you would need to obtain this.

Even if they claim they didn't know, can a LL reasonably claim not to have visited a HA property in 10 years?

Yes - many HA's are hopelessly incompetent.

What about repairs? Did they do any work to the property in the last 10 years? Any associated paperwork?